melling Walter Carr

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melling Walter Carr

Postby lynne99 » Thu Dec 29, 2011 6:52 pm

I am posting this for a friend who has had difficulty registering. I know it's not Bootle , but fairly near.

"Hi there, my main search is for my Great Grandad - Walter Carr. Walter is aged 5 on the 1881 census and supposedly from Cartmel in Cumbria. However, he grows up in the area of Melling with a family called Manchester (Jane & Richard). 2 of their children, Joseph & Esther, are witnesses on his marriage certificate. Their children also marry in to the 'Ledson' and 'Weaver' families.

So, I am interested in finding anyone who may have heard of these families or know any of the history of Melling and its occupants from the 1880's onwards.

On the 1911 Census, Joseph Manchester (Walters 'adopted' brother) is with his family at Taylor's Cottages, Huytons Lane, Melling. Walter is next on the list on Huyton Lane which was next door but 1 to the Police Station.

The Ledson family are on Prescott Road, Melling which I think is linked to Cunscough Hall (I wonder if this Hall holds any records ?)

Walter's 'adopted' mother Jane (now Jane Andrews) is also on Prescott Road and has her own Grocer's shop !
And the Weaver family are not far away on Wyresdale Road, Aintree !

Can anyone offer me any help "

Maxie has also been to Cartmel and looked in the registers, Contacted the GRO and searched 2 years each side of 1886. All to no avail. She has found the Manchester's with walter in the next censuses and they say born Cartmel--
On walter's marriage cert he gives his father as John Carr but not sure why the would have sent him to the Manchesters?
Please can you brilliant people help her with this
Thanks Lynne
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Postby smoked out » Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:52 pm

LEDSONS BRIDGE NO 9C

SPENCERS LANE MELLING
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/13648979

BRIDGES SOMETIMES CALLED BY THE LANDOWNERS NAME AS THEY MAY HAVE GIVEN CANAL COMPANY PERMISSION FOR THE CANAL TO BE BUILT ON THE LAND AS LONG AS BRIDGE WAS PROVIDED.

A FEW HITS ON GOOGLE FOR LEDSONS BRIDGE WHICH MIGHT HAVE SOME STUFF.
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Postby Jan » Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:01 am

:D

Hi Lynne,

Been having a look for a possible baptism for Walter J Carr bn c 1875, not having any luck.

Tried the lancashire online parishclerk project nothing there either!

But I did find a few of Walter and Jane's children's baptisms (not sure if you have them or not)!.

Here is the link

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Liverpool/Mel ... index.html

click on baptisms then go to

The Register for Baptisms at St Thomas and the Holy Rood 1872 - 1921 with Surname Index

You will see 4 Carr children's baptisms.

Forgot to ask, on Walter's marriage cert does it give his father's occupation?

Jan
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Postby Thommos sister » Sat Dec 31, 2011 8:24 am

Good mystery Lynne.
Great pointers Jan.
T.S :D

1881 address Giddy Gate Lane Cottage, love it...
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Postby Thommos sister » Sat Dec 31, 2011 8:42 am

It's interesting that in 1871 Richard & Jane have no kiddies.
1881 their first child Esther is only 1 year.
Perhaps before this census they thought they may be childless and took Walter in?
He keeps his own surname so not adopted.
I wonder what the connection is between the families?
Richard & Jane nee Halsall married in 1869, Ormskirk.
Esther & Joseph's births are nee Halsall, there's also a William Hy born 1878 july rego who sadly died as a baby in the next qtr.

T.S
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Postby lily8 » Sat Dec 31, 2011 8:49 am

You may have this but in case not a history of the Ledson family in Melling and other areas:

http://tsgf.pbworks.com/f/Ledson.pdf
Lily
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Postby lynne99 » Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:16 am

Thanks to you all. The Ledson family was very interesting. I still cannot find any info on Walter Carr or why the Manchesters were looking after him. The parent Jane nee Halsall aged 8 was in the same dwelling as a John Carr aged 6 in the 1861 census from Lancs OPC. (Halsall town) Does this help at all?
Can any one look Walter up to see if he is at Cartmel or is there anywhere else in Lancashire that sounds or looks like Cartmel?
Thanks Lynne
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Postby BOBHAMO » Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:59 pm

http://katesfamilytree.wetpaint.com/page/Whalley+and+Halsall+Family
just a bit about giddy gate cottage
and who lived there
[img]———————————————————
Birth: 1850, Halsall, Lancashire
Occ: Charwoman (1871) grocer and provision dealer (1901)

1851 address - Moss, Halsall
1861 address - Lamancha Cottage, Halsall
1871 address - Moss Side, Maghull
26 Nov 1876 - godmother to Margaret Grayson (as Joanna)
23 Mar 1879 - godmother to Esther Jane Grayson (named as “Joanna” Manchester)
1881 address - Giddy Gate Lane Cottage, Maghull
1891 address - Giddigate Lane, Maghull
1901 address - Melling Mount, Melling

Spouse: Richard Manchester
Birth: 1847, Ormskirk or Bickerstaffe, Lancashire
Death: Dec 1894, Ormskirk reg. district
Marr: Mar 1869, Ormskirk reg. district

Children: Esther (1879-)
Joseph (1881-)
Jane (1887-)
Sarah Ellen (1888-)
William Halsall (1891-)

Other spouses: John Andrews
Marr: Dec 1895, Liverpool reg dist

1.2.1a.1 Esther Manchester[
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Postby Thommos sister » Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:11 am

Great research Bob about the address.
Well done mate.

T.S :D
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Postby lynne99 » Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:55 pm

Thanks Bobhamo,
I have Jane's birth as 16 Sept 1853. I don't know where from. For some obscure reason I did not make a note.
If she was born in 1850 she would be on the census and I could check her mother's name. I have it as Esther.

On Lancs BMD there is a Jane Halsall b 1853 with a mother maiden name Taylor, registered in North Meols. Which may be near Melling. She was a catholic so I can't find any baptism. I take it the Giddy gate lane is when she was married. One the the God children would have been before she married, perhaps she was baptised at the same church??
Thanks again Lynne

I also did not have the correct marriage as I have it c 1878. Please can you tell me where the info is from. Thanks again Lynne
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Postby BOBHAMO » Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:10 pm

Lynne just click on the url
kates family tree
its just so interesting seeing all
the info the genies put on the site
its surpriseing what you can find
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thanks T S :lol: :lol:
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Postby lynne99 » Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:41 pm

Some times I am just too stupid. Tired on a Friday after work. That's the only excuse I can think of sorry !!!¬
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Postby lynne99 » Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:25 pm

I've spent the morning digging and delving into Richard and Jane Manchester's family.
I have found 2 children I did not know about.
1) William henry that Thommas sister mentioned who was born in 1878 and died 5 months later in Nov 1878.
2) John who was born 1887 (can't find baptism) and died May 1887 aged 4 months. I think this means that Jane born January 1887 would have been his twin sister. Please tell me if you think this is correct. Both these are noted in the registers for St Michael's Aughton as being Roman Catholic.

Was Walter Carr who seems to be unrecorded at birth , with the family in 1871??
Help please Lynne
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Postby glossybonce » Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:54 pm

Hi Lynne

Did Jane Manchester marry the lodger John Andrews who was a saddler and was widowed from him before the 1901 census, he was living with the family from when Walter was a 5 year old in 1881.

You ask was Walter with the family in 1871 but he wasn't born until 1875 according to the 1881 census.

He is with them in 1881 age 5, 1891 age 16, and 1901 age 26 in Melling Mount.
Time is precious.....Waste it wisely.
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Postby lynne99 » Sat Jan 07, 2012 6:17 pm

Yes she did marry the lodger after Richard died in 1894. Marriage was Dec 1895 and she was baptised as a c of E before it.
Sorry about the 1871 census,I was well mixed up. Can't find any record of his birth, but if he was Catholic that may be why

Thanks Lynne

edit Not only can I not find a birth for Walter, but no marriage either. There are 4 children baptised in Melling with mother Jane , but no trace of a marriage
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Postby glossybonce » Sat Jan 07, 2012 7:34 pm

lynne99 wrote:edit Not only can I not find a birth for Walter, but no marriage either. There are 4 children baptised in Melling with mother Jane , but no trace of a marriage


On the 1911 census he states he has been married less than 1 year so checked on www.lancashirebmd.org

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1910
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
CARR Walter RIDING Jane West Derby, Register Office or Registrar Attended Liverpool REG_WD/267/15
Time is precious.....Waste it wisely.
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Postby Thommos sister » Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:27 am

Good results Glossy!

T.S :)
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Postby lynne99 » Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:57 am

Brilliant sleuthing Thank you. Presumably if the registrar attended then it could have been a catholic marriage. So we may be looking for a catholic birth.
All we need now is his birth.
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Postby Jan » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:22 am

[quote] Lynne -Joseph & Esther, are witnesses on his marriage certificate,

On walter's marriage cert he gives his father as John Carr.

Lynne,

I am a bit confused here, does your friend have the marriage cert? The above are from your first post!

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Postby lynne99 » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:44 am

She is on ancestry but I am not. The connection is that Richard Manchester is a member of my tree, so I am interested about Walter. I think she got the marriage details from Ancestry.
There is a birth of a John Carr in Cartmel

"On the census Walter has the initial J what did that stand for,assuming he was born in Cartmel and his birth was registered ,

there is a John Carr,birth registered Ulverston June 1873,
William ,December 1874"
This is from "Radcliff" on another site , The birth as John would make him 8 in the 1881 census not 5 as stated. But it does show there were Carrs there and perhaps someone went there to keep it quiet.
Thanks Lynne
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Postby glossybonce » Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:27 pm

Hi Lynne

I have seen your friends post on the other genie forum here's what she says about the marriage cert that Jan asked about.

Walter Carr married Jane Riding Registry Office 15 Nov 1910 witness's are Joseph and Esther Manchester, both residing at 214 Rice Lane Walton.


I have checked out this address for 1911 Gores Directory and its the address of a Charles Whitfield cycle maker, I think personally that it was just an address used to be married from.

I noticed when Jane Manchester married John Andrews they too used a Liverpool address namely Juvenal Street which is a million miles away from Melling and the rural surroundings they would have been used too.

Here is Walter in 1911
CARR, Walter Head Married M 36 1875 Farm Labourer Lancs Melling
CARR, Jane Wife Married F 32 1879 Lancs Aughton
CARR, Joseph Son 0 (2 MONTHS) 1911 Lancs Melling

Address:
Huyton Lane Melling Near Liverpool
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Postby glossybonce » Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:03 pm

Hi Lynne

I'm not sure if she is saying this is the bride and grooms address or the witness's. Maybe she could give us the details of all parties concerned. I cant find the marriage on Ancestry as it was a Registry Office wedding so she must have the GRO certificate.

Do these certs have witnesses address's ?

Just been through all my certificates to check and found that I only have birth and deaths .....none of mine married :lol: :lol:
And those that did were in church so I got copies from the parish records at the Liverpool Records Office.
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Postby lynne99 » Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:25 am

Hi, Looked at my marriage certs. No address for witnesses only signature . She says she can't register on this site because of the technical questions. But her latest message says she does have the GRO cert. These give Date, names age , condition, Profession, residence at time of marriage, father's anme and profession.
Sometimes the registrar attended if it was a catholic wedding in a Catholic church. (Or at least I think that is so.)
Perhaps they had to leave the house in Melling after Richard's death, he was a farmer,. Jane moved back to Melling Mount, 1901 census. (See Bobhama's post) New husband died before that I think. They may have moved back before his death, because there is a John Andrews died Dec 1/4 1898 registered Ormskirk aged 41, which is about the same age as Jane.
Lynne
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Postby BOBHAMO » Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:24 pm

EDIT
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Re: melling Walter Carr

Postby MattyP83 » Wed May 01, 2019 7:30 pm

lynne99 wrote:I am posting this for a friend who has had difficulty registering. I know it's not Bootle , but fairly near.

"Hi there, my main search is for my Great Grandad - Walter Carr. Walter is aged 5 on the 1881 census and supposedly from Cartmel in Cumbria. However, he grows up in the area of Melling with a family called Manchester (Jane & Richard). 2 of their children, Joseph & Esther, are witnesses on his marriage certificate. Their children also marry in to the 'Ledson' and 'Weaver' families.

So, I am interested in finding anyone who may have heard of these families or know any of the history of Melling and its occupants from the 1880's onwards.

On the 1911 Census, Joseph Manchester (Walters 'adopted' brother) is with his family at Taylor's Cottages, Huytons Lane, Melling. Walter is next on the list on Huyton Lane which was next door but 1 to the Police Station.

The Ledson family are on Prescott Road, Melling which I think is linked to Cunscough Hall (I wonder if this Hall holds any records ?)

Walter's 'adopted' mother Jane (now Jane Andrews) is also on Prescott Road and has her own Grocer's shop !
And the Weaver family are not far away on Wyresdale Road, Aintree !

Can anyone offer me any help "

Maxie has also been to Cartmel and looked in the registers, Contacted the GRO and searched 2 years each side of 1886. All to no avail. She has found the Manchester's with walter in the next censuses and they say born Cartmel--
On walter's marriage cert he gives his father as John Carr but not sure why the would have sent him to the Manchesters?
Please can you brilliant people help her with this
Thanks Lynne
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Re: melling Walter Carr

Postby MattyP83 » Wed May 01, 2019 7:35 pm

Hi I know it was a while ago but did you get anywhere as Walter is my Grandad and we would love to know who his family was.
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Re: melling Walter Carr

Postby lynne99 » Thu May 02, 2019 8:39 am

Sorry Matty. I have had no luck finding his birth. I think it will be DNA and hope another Carr has had theirs done. Or wait for more RC registers are available. Richard Manchester was a relative of mine, so I am very interested in knowing the connection. Which one of Walter's children was your parent??
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Re: melling Walter Carr

Postby MattyP83 » Thu May 02, 2019 4:33 pm

No worries I was doing my family tree last night and it seems Walter was my great grandad his son Walter is my mums dad she is Anne Carr now Parry Thanks for getting back to me.
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