Ancestry help please

[marknjen]

Hi im hoping the clever genies that are here can help me with this,its not a bootle resident though is this ok?

[marknjen]

Hahaha I'll assume it's ok so ill ask!
John Brown born 6 aug 1913
Married Edith Hughes in 1937 Liverpool
Ive got all their kids! Im after info on John's parents who we think are William Brown and Margaret snowden! Im thinking Edith's parent's were John Henry Hughes brn 1871 Wrexham and anne jane Yearsley brn 1873 brn lpool, im also thinking John Henry browns parents are John Brown and betsy Griffiths! Any help with John Hughes and betsy Griffiths or William brown and Margaret snowden please! Thanks

[Jan]

Hiya Mark,

Could you give more info please on John Brown born 6th August 1913, where was he born?

Where did you get possible parents names from? Do you have his marriage cert with father's name?

Jan

[marknjen]

Hello Jan,

Hope your keeping well!

Johns birth is 6th aug 1913 Holytown,Bellshill, Scotland, he had brother's merrick (not sure on spellings) and Wilson and a sister Mary who married a Croysdale, and a sister who died effie campbell brown (no idea where Campbell came from) we think his dad may have been born Wigton Cumbria.

I have john in 1939 census working as iron moulder
Line Number26
Schedule Number301
Sub Schedule Number3
Enumeration DistrictNTGPBoroughAshton-under-Lyne
Registration district468/2

His wife Edith hughes is 1939
Residence PlaceLiverpool,
Lancashire, England
OccupationUnpaid Domestic Duties
Line Number23
Schedule Number201
Sub Schedule Number1Enumeration DistrictNIAIBoroughLiverpool
Registration district(16) 455/1.

Death for John
Name
John Brown
Death Age
55
Birth Date
6 Aug 1913
Registration Date
Jul 1969
Registration Quarter
Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district
Prescot
Inferred County
Lancashire
Volume 10f
Page 470

All this is confirmed by his daughter Jeanette! Johns parent's names also confirmed by daughter's of John! They are William Brown and Margaret snowden married 13/3/1895, all info confirmed by John's children Jeanette Pamela Marjorie and John jnr!

Hope this helps
Thanks
Mark

[marknjen]

The tree is called
Cronin/Church family tree on ancestry and is public so anyone can view it if your on that particular family tree search tool! That will show you where we are at at the min!
Thanks again

[Jan]

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the info.

It may be worth paying to have a look on the Scotland's People website, https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/search-our-records I don't have a sub to it but did a quick search and found a John Bell Brown born Lanark 1913 which could be your man.

Margaret Snowden and William Brown married in Wigton 1895


Name: Margaret Snowden
Registration Year: 1895
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration District: Wigton

Inferred County: Cumberland
Volume: 10b
Page: 730
Records on Page:
Name
William Brown



Jan

[Jan]

Mark,

This is the closest I can find for the brother Meryick (not sure)

BROWN
MATTHEW MERYICK
M
1914
625/2 625
Holytown

This was from the Scotland's People website.

Jan

[Jan]

Mark,

I found this death registration on the Scotland's People website. It gives mother's maiden name of the deceased.

BROWN
MATTHEW MERYICK
59
SNOWDEN
1974
566/ 485
Bellshill

Jan

[Jan]

Mark,

I found the 1901 census for the Brown family in Scotland, it only has the transcript and not the actual image.
Academy Square, 11, Bothwell, Bellshill, Lanarkshire, Scotland

Household members (5 people)
Copy to clipboard
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
William Brown Head Married Male 27 1874 Steam crane driver England
Margaret Brown Wife Married Female 27 1874 - England
Mary Elizabeth Brown Daughter - Female 5 1896 Scholar England
Robert J Brown Son - Male 4 1897 - England
Sarah J Brown Daughter - Female 1 1900 - England
Transcript of Sarah J's record
Copy to clipboard
First name(s) Sarah J
Parish Bothwell
Last name Brown
County Lanarkshire
Relationship Daughter
Country Scotland
Marital status -
Registration district Bellshill
Sex Female
Parliamentary borough or division North East Lanarkshire
Age 1
Ecclesiastical parish or district Bothwell

I had a look at the GRO birth registrations

d.
Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
BROWN, ROBERT JAMES SNOWDEN
GRO Reference: 1896 S Quarter in COCKERMOUTH Volume 10B Page 621

Mother's Maiden Surname:
BROWN, MARY ELIZABETH SNOWDEN
GRO Reference: 1895 S Quarter in COCKERMOUTH Volume 10B Page 643


Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
BROWN, HILDA SNOWDEN
GRO Reference: 1901 J Quarter in MIDDLESBROUGH Volume 09D Page 658
BROWN, SARAH JANE SNOWDEN
GRO Reference: 1900 M Quarter in OF WIGTON Volume 10B Page 617


Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
BROWN, MARGARET ALICE SNOWDEN
GRO Reference: 1904 S Quarter in WIGTON Volume 10B Page 645

Jan

[Jan]

Mark,

The 1911 Scotland census is on the ScotlandsPeople website.

Jan

[marknjen]

Thanks so much Jan
You are an amazing Genie

[Jan]

Thanks Mark,

Now getting back to the Hughes family, I have traced them back in census records, John Henry Hughes (or just John) occupation Stone Mason (is that right?)
I think he married Elizabeth Griffiths in Bebington St Andrews church 1867. (found on CheshireBMD)


Cheshire Marriage indexes for the years: 1866 to 1870
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Year Church / Register Office Registers At Reference Add to Summary
HUGHES John GRIFFITHS Elizabeth 1867 Bebington, St Andrew Wirral BK58/2/344

Looked at Cheshire marriages on FMP and came up with this.




Jan

[marknjen]

Wow thanks Jan

[marknjen]

Hi Guys,
As ever thanks Jan for your genie magic however im sure there was more genies on this forum at one point! Can anyone else help out with John Brown and his family further back please? This really is one of the hardest brickwalls I've hit doing ancestry work! Thanks again
Keep safe everyone
Thanks
Mark

[Jan]

Hi Mark,

To be able to go further back with John Brown's family it may be worth getting a copy of the marriage cert for William Brown and Margaret Snowden. to be able to find out what respective father's names and occupations.

I did find Margaret Snowden in 1881 census in Wigton. Not knowing William Brown's exact year and place of birth is proving difficult to find anything else about him.

Jan

[marknjen]

Thanks Jan

[marknjen]

Hi, still awaiting the marriage cert so concentrating on other family members! I cant find twins andrew and roland cronin born 5th April 1915, Seaforth Liverpool too Minnie Watson and Thomas Cronin! I have the their mother and bro and sister's in 1939 census but can't find andrew or Roland anywhere! Is it possible they at sea? Roland's wife in 1939 is Elizabeth ann briggs born 1910 and she is in 1939 census with her family and briggs is crossed out with Cronin wrote! So im wondering where Andrew and Roland are in 1939! Thanks

[Jan]

Hi Mark,

I don't know where Roland was in 1939, he may have been in the army or at sea.

This could be Andrew in 1939

First name(s) Andrew
Schedule 10
Last name(s) Cronin
Schedule Sub Number 246
DOB 05 Apr 1915
Borough / District West Lancashire R.D.
Birth day 5
County Lancashire
Birth month 4
Country England
Birth year 1915
Archive reference RG101/4963G/008/19
Sex Male
Piece number 4963G
Marital status Single
Item number 8
Occupation Lodge Porter
Line number 19
Special interest groups -
Category Census, land & surveys
Address Hall Sugar Stubbs Lane, Banks
Subcategory Census
Place West Lancashire R.D.
Collections from Great Britain, England
E. D. letter code NZUC
I think it was Greaves Hall that Andrew was living at.
Jan

[marknjen]

Thanks Jan,
Why didn't this show up on Ancestry in the 1939 census search? Any idea's?
Probably me doing something wrong doh!
Hahahaha thanks again Jan!

Just be informed the marriage cert arrived and they sending me a photo later I'll put all details on here when they send

Take care
Mark

[Jan]

Hi Mark,

Ancestry has Andrew transcribed as Andrew Crovin

Name: Andrew Crovin
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Single
Birth Date: 5 Apr 1915
Residence Date: 1939
Address: Greaves Hall
Residence Place: West Lancashire, Lancashire, England
Occupation: Lodge Porter
Line Number: 19
Schedule Number: 10
Sub Schedule Number: 247
OVSPI: Officer
Enumeration District: NZUC
Borough: West Lancashire
Registration district: 457-1

Jan

[marknjen]

Thanks so much Jan,
Lodge porter is that hospital porter then? Brief look at the hall it was girls school till 1938, then TB hospital,then mental health hospital! Thanks
Mark

[marknjen]

Hope this works

[marknjen]

I cant make out Williams occupation! Or William Snowden occupation either!

Thanks

[Jan]

Hi Mark,

I think William Snowden's occupation is Bacon Curer.

I will try and decipher William Brown's occupation.

Jan

[Jan]

Mark,

This Margaret's family in 1881 census

Name: William Snowden
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841
Relationship to Head: Head
Spouse: Mary Snowden
Gender: Male
Where born: Scotland
Civil Parish: Wigton
County/Island: Cumberland
Country: England
Street Address: No 25 Union Street
Marital status: Married
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Occupation: Bacon Curer (Pror)
Registration District: Wigton
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 5164
Folio: 23
Page Number: 11
Household Members:
Name Age
William Snowden 40
Mary Snowden 41
Mary J. Snowden 11
Matthew Snowden 9
Margaret Snowden 7
Thomas Snowden 5
William Snowden 1

Jan

[marknjen]

Thank you Jan
Amazing as ever
Xx

[marknjen]

I think William marries Mary Wilson i think this is Mary and kids

[marknjen]

I also think Williams father is Mathew snowden and his mother Catherine Thomson

[marknjen]

Hi I noticed a isobella Wilson as a witness to the wedding! Im wondering if this is a relative or someone married into family? Margaret's mother is Mary Wilson so im thinking possible related?
Thanks

[marknjen]

Hi Mark,

To be able to go further back with John Brown's family it may be worth getting a copy of the marriage cert for William Brown and Margaret Snowden. to be able to find out what respective father's names and occupations.

I did find Margaret Snowden in 1881 census in Wigton. Not knowing William Brown's exact year and place of birth is proving difficult to find anything else about him.

Jan

Has the marriage cert helped in anyway Jan? Im still struggling with John Brown's family going back! Thanks