Daniel Holland

[Shorneyb]

Hi, I’m wondering if anyone can help me, I’ve been trying to find records for the last 10 years of my 3rd Grt Grandfather Daniel Holland as part of my family tree research and the only info I have on him is that he was living at 10 Eastlake Street in 1889 and his occupation was a boilermaker. He had a son William Edward Holland approx 1866. Would anyone have records on him in the electoral registers or access to any other records that could point me in the right direction as I don’t know where else to search?

Many Thanks Shorne

[Jan]

Hi Shorne,

Where did you get the 1889 address from for Daniel Holland, what documentation do you have? Any other information on his son William Edward? where and when born, other family members, his wife and children etc?

Jan

[BOBHAMO]

1889


eastlake street
bobhamo

[Shorneyb]

[Shorneyb]

Hi Jan

See attached images, this is Daniel Holland’s Sons wedding and states his address as 10 Eastlake street

Shorne

[Shorneyb]

Hi Bobhamo

I can’t view the directories very well, they are all blurry?

Shorne

[BOBHAMO]

1889
its hard to scan these are from my camera
any other addresses
there is a Daniel 34 Hughes st
bobhamo

[BOBHAMO]

looked for Peter Kelly father in law
the address no 48 there was a baker who lived there
bobhamo

[Shorneyb]

Hi Bobhamo

Thanks for doing this for me, it’s a shame we can’t find a Holland living at Eastlake street, the Daniel Holland at Hughes street could be a clue. Could you find census records for 48 Eastlake street in 1881, be interesting to know who lived there at that time, even who was living at 34 Hughes street?

Shorne

[BOBHAMO]

1881
bobhamo
34 Hughes st Daniel williamson jioner
bobhamo

[Jan]

I checked Eastlake Street and Hughes Street 1881, no Holland's there at those times, also Hughes St 1891, still no luck.

Jan

[Shorneyb]

Not having much luck with this are we

Oh well, I suppose it wasn’t meant to be, thanks so much for trying Jan and BOBHAMO

[Jan]

I am not giving up lol.

I don't know if it is relevant or not. But I found this on the 1881 census.

Name: Daniel Holland
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1846
Relationship to Head: Head
Spouse: Mary Ann Holland
Gender: Male
Where born: Brompton, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Southwark St Saviour
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: 27 America Street
Marital status: Married
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Occupation: Waterside Labourer
Registration District: St Saviour Southwark
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 519
Folio: 60
Page Number: 40
Household Members:
Name Age
Daniel Holland 35
Mary Ann Holland 29
Daniel Holland 14
William Holland 12
Mary Ann Holland 4
George Holland 1

I was thinking about the marriage certificate, and it does have both William and Catherine living at 48 Eastlake St, perhaps it was an address of convenience to be able to marry in the church of their choosing? It happened a lot back then, I have found through years of doing family history research that people didn't live in the places they said they did. I remember doing some searching for someone a few years ago, their relative had married in Liverpool, but the address on their marriage certificate did not match with any address in Liverpool, then after searching for a while, I found that the address was actually in Widnes!

So you never know.

Jan

[Shorneyb]

Hi Jan
Bless you for keep trying, I really appreciate it.

The William Holland on that cencus, does it state where he was born as my William Holland was born in Liverpool stated on later cencus docs?

[Jan]

Hi Shorne,

William in 1881 census above was born in Surrey. So we can give that a miss.

I found this birth reg

Name: William Holland
Registration Year: 1869
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Registration District: Liverpool
Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 44

I will have a look and find mother's maiden name for that one.

Jan

[Jan]

Mother's maiden name Nolan.

Now to find her hubby

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
HOLLAND, WILLIAM NOLAN
GRO Reference: 1869 J Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 44

Jan

[Jan]

Shorne,

I think that the father's name on William's marriage is possibly wrong!

I found that the mother of William born 1869 Liverpool was Mary Nolan. she married Phillip Holland at the same church William married at,. they married in 1864. both gave their addresses as Co Kilkenny.

Have a look at this for 1871 census. Nolan family (transcribed as Nowlan) with the Hollands as visitors.

Name: Philip Holland
Age: 38
Estimated Birth Year: 1833
Relation: Visitor
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland
Civil parish: Liverpool
Ecclesiastical parish: St Alban
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Liverpool
Sub-registration district: St Martin
ED, institution, or vessel: 23
Household schedule number: 197
Piece: 3758
Folio: 103
Page number: 37
Household Members Age Relationship
Edward Nowlan
43 Head
Julia Nowlan
45 Wife
Thomas Nowlan
21 Son
Ann Nowlan
18 Daughter
Philip Holland 38 Visitor
Mary Holland
23 Visitor
William Holland
2 Visitor

Philip Holland died in 1873 buried in Ford cem

I think William is with the Nolan's in 1881

Jan

[Shorneyb]

Hi Jan,

Great work there, I have actually found that info before years ago and wondered if that could have been my William, but completely ignored it as I was concentrating on his marriage certificates fathers name as Daniel. Why would it be incorrect on the marriage cert and also the catholic marriage doc attached.

[Jan]

Hi Shorne,

I am not sure how this mistake has been made, maybe the priest wasn't listening. I had a similar problem with my grandma's father's name it has Wilfrid as her dad on her birth cert and William on her marriage cert. good job I found her on 1911 census with her parents and indeed it was Wilfred.

William's brother Edward's baptism

Name: Edwardus Holland
[Edward Holland]
Age: 0
Birth Date: 16 Oct 1871
Baptism Date: 16 Oct 1871
Baptism Place: Our Lady of Reconciliation de La Salette, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Search Photos: Search for 'Liverpool' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Father: Philippi Holland
Mother: Mariae Nolan

both boys are with Edward and Julia Nolan on 1881 census they are listed as nephews. living in Eldon Street. I looked at Philip Holland's burial record, his address was also Eldon Street!

Jan

[Shorneyb]

Oh Jan, you have opened a can of worms haha.

You’ve got me thinking now could that really be him.

The only other thing that’s strange is on his marriage certificate it states age of 23 that puts his year of birth in around 1866-67 and not 1869

[Jan]

Hi Shorne,

I have been doing a bit of digging around and found that Catherine and William were living at 23 Howe Street in 1911 census.

I found Catherine still living there in 1939 by this time she is a widow, in the same household with her is her now married daughter Norah Mushrow, and her hubby Joseph, and a few of their children.

I also found Catherine's burial at Ford cem she is in plot JL grave 64 buried 1953 Her daughter Norah Mushrow is in the same grave, buried there in 1957, The address for both of them was 53 Marsh Lane Bootle. Now I also found William Holland buried there in 1933 same plot and grave number. his address was Rice Lane (Walton hospital) his year of birth was about 1866. I am wondering if he ever knew his date of birth, there seem to be a lot of discrepancies about it!

Here is his death registration

Name: William Holland
Death Age: 67
Birth Date: abt 1866
Registration Date: Jul 1933
[Aug 1933]
[Sep 1933]
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration District: West Derby
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 356

Name: William Holland
Death Age: 67
Birth Date: abt 1866
Death Date: 1933
Burial Date: 30 Aug 1933
Burial Place: Ford Cemetery, Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Jan

[Jan]

Me again Shorne.

I found this for St Alexander's Bootle marriage. if you scroll down, you will find that some of the daughters of William and Catherine married at St Alexanders, their baptisms took place in St Alban;s RC church. and a few others. I notice that Charles Rice was a witness at William and Catherine's wedding, he was also a godparent to Christina Holland, he is named of her baptism.

http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~liverpoo ... INDEXH.htm

Lily on the census records was actually Elizabeth Holland.

Lucy Louise emigrated.

Jan

[Shorneyb]

Hi Jan

This is absolutely fantastic what you have found for me, it gives me so much information to work on and add to my FT research. I would love to go and visit the graves one day and it’s nice to know that my 2nd great grandparents were buried together. It’s such a mystery with William Holland’s actual parents, I’m going on the path of It being Phillip and Mary Nolan, once again thank you so much for this, and any other info you find I would be greatly honoured Shorne

[Jan]

Glad to help Shorne.

I found this on findmypast



First name(s) Lucy
Last name O'Leary
Role Passenger
Others Departure port relation (MOTHER): Mrs Catherien Holland, Arrival port relation (HUSBAND): Mr Dennis O'Leary
Sex Female
Age 23y 5m
Birth year 1899
Nationality Great Britain, English
Residence Liverpool, England
Year 1922
Departure port Liverpool
Arrival place New York
Ship name Carmania
Country United States
Collection New York City Passenger Lists, 1820-1957
NARA publication number M237 and T715
Record set United States, Passenger And Crew Lists
Category Travel & migration
Subcategory Passenger Lists
Collections from Americas, United States

[Shorneyb]

Hi Jan

I thought you might like to see some photos I have of William and Catherine and their children as thought it’ll be nice to put faces to the names from the hard research you’ve done

Shorne

[Jan]

Lucy travelled with her daughter Catherine.

On the actual image it gives her mother's address as 23 Howe Street Bootle.


Name: Catherine Oleary
Arrival Date: 6 Oct 1922
Birth Date: abt 1921
Last Permanent Address: England
Other Last Permanent Address: Liverpool, England
Age: 1
Gender: Female
Ethnicity/ Nationality: English
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Port of Arrival: New York, New York, USA
Ship Name: Carmania

Jan

[Jan]

Fantastic photo's Shorne,

It is a great thing to have photo's like that. Puts faces to names and makes it more real.

Jan

[Shorneyb]

Hi Jan

I was already aware of Lucy departure to USA with Dennis
As they moved to San Francisco. I actually connected to their Granddaughter last year through a DNA match on Ancestry who still lives in the USA which was a nice surprise. I didn’t know that Catherine travelled over with them though, am I able to view the image?
Shorne

[Jan]

Hi Shorne,

That is great that you have made contact with Lucy's granddaughter, how lovely.

The image of the ship's manifest can be viewed on ancestry.

I found Lucy's husband's naturalisation papers on ancestry, it even has his photo on it.

you are my everything poem

Also Lucy's (which also gives dates of birth for her children Catherine and Dennis)



Jan

[Jan]

Part of ship's manifest



Jan

[Elaine Goulding]

Jan, as usual, amazing work

[BOBHAMO]

Got to agree Jan is superb at getting info
bobhamo

[Shorneyb]

Hi Jan

You truly are amazing, many thanks for Lucy's husband's naturalisation papers and the other docs, I really do appreciate it.

Shorne

[Jan]

Thanks very much for the kind comments, they are very much appreciated.

Jan

[Shorneyb]

Hi Jan

Another question, is there anyway I can get a copy of a marriage certificate or parish record for my Grandad William Hamilton Stuart Burton married to Annie Howarth at St Francis Xavier Salisbury Street Roman Catholic Liverpool on 23rd August 1936, been searching everywhere with no luck

Thanks Shorne