Thomas Ralph Starr born 1910 Grandfather

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HelenStarrBeveridge
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Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:26 pm

Good evening all . Thanks for letting me join this site . Im trying to find out more about my fathers family here's what I know, which is very little;

I know my Great Grandfathers name was Ralph Starr and he married a May Holden in June 1906 at St Andrews Church Bootle. I don't have an address and I've no idea what they may have done for a living but I suspect it was probably dock work or railways.

I know that their son my Grandfather was registered as Ralph Thomas Starr on his birth certificate Im told in 1910, he went by the name of Thomas presumably to avoid being confused with his father.
He was awarded a Carnegie medal for heroism aged 13 when he saved a child from drowning in the Liverpool Canal. His address at the time of the reward was Humphrey Street. I don't know if this street still exists as I know about 74% of Bootle was bombed in WW2. I believe through the grapevine that my Grandfather marched from Liverpool to London as a young man and imagine this may have been something to do with the 1926 General Strike. if so he'd have been about 15/16 years old. I imagine these two facts may have appeared in the local newspapers of the time but have never read anything about it.

I have no idea if he returned from London but I do know he met my Grandmother Francis Richards whilst she was in service at a property in Paddington, London. I don't know if he was lodging at the house as I don't have an address. May Grandmother died when I was just 2 years of age and I met my Grandfather rarely as a child so know little of their lives and less about their family history Im told he may have been a bare knuckle fighter but also worked until retirement for the railways settling in Reading to raise a family, his only son and namesake my father is still living and in his mid 70s. Im assuming my Grandfather was employed by GWR as that would seem the obvious link between Paddington and Reading and employment on the railways. I believe he worked on the tracks rather than on the trains.

Im hoping that with an unusual surname like Starr local records may add to the scant info I have. Over the years I have tried to find info using ancestry UK but have drawn a blank and have now allowed my membership to lapse. Googling the name STARR and Liverpool has always brought up the inevitable Ringo connection whose surname wasn't even STARR I believe ! I don't think my father was ever taken to liverpool to meet relatives as a child so again no info was passed down. Anyway if anyone is reading this and can offer any clues Id really appreciate it. Thanks in advance.
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filsgreen
Posts: 3392
Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 8:28 am

Welcome to the forum, Helen. Hopefully one of the fantastic Genies will be able to help you. Humphrey street no longer exists, they knocked down that area about five years ago.
Jan
Posts: 6941
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:34 pm
Location: Bootle

:D

Hi Helen,

Welcome to the site.

Could this be your family in the 1911 census?

8 Willard Street Bootle

Ralph Starr head of the household married, age 34 occupation Brick maker born Bootle
May Rebecca Starr Wife age 24
May Rebecca Starr daughter age 5
Isabella Starr daughter age 3
Ralph Thomas Starr Son age 11 months
All above born Bootle
There were also two boarders living with the family Thomas Rees and his wife Elizabeth born Liverpool

I will see what else I can find, hope that has helped a bit.

Jan
Old genealogists never die......they just lose their census.
lily8
Posts: 10062
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:57 am
Location: Far North Queensland Australia

Well done Jan :D I found this from 1939:::::::
Starr Household (5 People)
6 Park Crescent , Reading C.B., Berkshire, England
Ralph T
Starr
06 May 1910
Railway Labourer Signal Telegraph Maintenance Repair


Francis A J
Starr
19 Nov 1914
Unpaid Domestic Duties
last 3 records are closed under the 100 year rule
Lily
lynne99
Posts: 1206
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:55 pm
Location: Rugby

Hi, My uncle Arnold James Fletcher "Jim" married May Rebecca Starr "Aunty May". They married in 1936. They had 2 Children Roy who died a few years ago and their 2nd son is still alive and living in Scotland. One of his children lives in Liverpool. I don't have any info about aunty May's siblings or parents , though my cousin might have. Lynne
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filsgreen
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Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 8:28 am

Wow, Lynne, what a coincidence and well done Genies, you never let the side down :)
Thommos sister
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Location: Waikiki Western Australia

Hi Lynne Lancs BMD have the marriage in Sept Qtr 1936 at St Peter in Aintree.
lily8
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Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:57 am
Location: Far North Queensland Australia

Helen do you want to search the Starr family further back than your Gt Gfather ?? if so please let us know cheers.
Lily
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BOBHAMO
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Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:20 pm
Location: BIG CITY

Welcome Helen :D :D Humphrey street is demolished over the last 5 years
i took loads of photos of the klondyke area
Image
1918
Image
Humphrey street demolision
will look for more
the family are recorded in bootle before 1900
as lily has posted there is info to find
bobhamo
bootle born altcar road
lynne99
Posts: 1206
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:55 pm
Location: Rugby

Even if the original poster does not want further info, I would if you have time . Thanks
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BOBHAMO
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Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:20 pm
Location: BIG CITY

Image
this is a photo of the brickmakers of theKlondyke estate
Ralph might be on it they where employed bywilliam jones and willard and humphrey streets
had his workers living in his houses
Lynne most of the info is on the Family Search site
if its the right family there are lots of starrs there
bobhamo
bootle born altcar road
lynne99
Posts: 1206
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:55 pm
Location: Rugby

Thanks Bobhamo :)
FionaDodd
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:51 pm

Hey everyone :) .. so I’ve just started looking for family connections for my mum - Deanna Frances Starr (now in her 70’s) .. whose Father is Ralph Thomas Starr (born 6/5/1910) and whose Grandparents are May Starr (originally Holden) and Ralph Starr. The original poster is actually my cousin (Hey Helen!!) .. although we’ve never met!

In response to Lily8, I would definitely be interested in going back further than my Great Grand Parents - my Mum would be so happy to have any additional information - so would be really appreciative of any help searching the Starr (and Holden) family line if you are able to help in any way! :)

Also Lily .. you mentioned that my Grandmother, Francis Alice Jane Starr’s (who I never met), last 3 records were closed under the 100 year rule .. is it possible at all to access this information???

Also thanks for the information from Jan .. I knew my Great Grandmothers name was May Starr - but didn't know her middle name was Rebecca - which is good to know as I start filling out our family tree. Also interesting to hear from Lynne99 who's Aunty May seems to be the daughter of May and Ralph star (and so also my mothers aunt).

To be honest I’ve never looked at ancestry stuff at all so this is all kind of new - but I’m very grateful for all of the information and any further help. It was also really good to see some photos Bobhamo - so thanks for that too!

Fiona
lily8
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Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:57 am
Location: Far North Queensland Australia

Hi again Fiona, sadly the 100 year rule can't be challenged unless by the actual person or by giving their permission in writing to another party. However I think I can possibly hazard a guess as to any children. The Starrs married in the Paddington district in 1933 and had two children by the time the 1939 register was compiled (the third person locked may have been a relative/friend). Pamela DLM Starr was born 1935 and Gloria FA was born 1936 both registered at Paddington. There are subsequent births post 1939 to Starr mothers maiden name Richards.
Lily
FionaDodd
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Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:51 pm

Hey lily .. thanks for getting back to me - and for info re: 100 year rule :)

I’m up on the info to do with my grandparents, Ralph Thomas Star (born 6/5/1910 in Bootle and Frances Richards from Wales) and their children (Pamela and Gloria being the eldest). I know too that my great grandfather, also Ralph Starr, was married to May Rebecca Holden (although I have no dates). I’m really interested to see if I can go any further back .. to Ralph and Mays Parents. Again, thanks for the info :)

Fiona
42aitch
Posts: 485
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:47 am
Location: Litherland

May Rebecca Holden was born 1/5/1884 and Baptised 17/3/1886 at St Thomas COE, Seaforth. Her parents were James Holden and Alice Miller of Verdi Street and Father was a Tailor.

I also think this was Ralph's Father with his parents in 1891 at 3 Bangor Street, Bootle -
John Star -50 - Felmonger Leather Dresser born Ely Cambridgeshire
Isabella Star - 47 Tailoress - Ely Cambridgeshire
Frances Star - 21 - Born Ely
John Star - 19 Newspaper Seller - Born Hitchin, Herts
Ralph Star - 15 - Born Bootle
Edmond Star - 13 - Bootle
Isabella Star - 6 - Bootle
Frances Monsley - Mother in Law - born Norborough, Norfolk - This surname I think is incorrect as John Star married Isabella Powley Allensby in 1864 in Ely. See also 1871 census

1881 at 16 Devon Street.
John Star - 40 Leather Dresser
Isabella Star - 33 - Dressmaker
Frances Star - 9 - born Ely
John Star - 8
Ralph Star - 6
Edmond Star - 2
Elizabeth Star - 1
Frances Minsley - 60 - Mother-in-law - Tailoress
Also 2 Boarders

There is also a Holden tree on Ancestry with May Rebecca on which you may find interesting

Eileen
Litherland girl with Bootle parents.
FionaDodd
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:51 pm

Wow! Thank you so much 42aitch! - that’s a lot of new information - I really appreciate that :)

To be honest I’ve literally only just started looking - and this website is the first sight I’ve been on - so I’m really curious to know how to find this information. Where did you start? Is this on Ancestry.co.uk?

As far as the Starr family line goes.. I noticed that there is only one ‘r’ at the end of the name for the family that lived in Bangor Street. Is this a typing error? (as my grandfather Ralph Thomas Starr and as far as I know, his Father, Ralph (son of John Star), have 2 r’s at the end of their sir name? Perhaps an extra ‘r’ was added at some stage???

Also, wanted to check.. was it Frances Mosley or Minsley? (as there seems to be 2 different spellings) .. I wonder whether she married a second time and changed her name from Frances Powley Allensby to Frances Mosley?

I also noticed a discrepancy in the age of Isabella Star .. because in 1881 (at Devon street) she was 33 - but 10 years later (in Bangor Street) she is 47 .. and also, the youngest child, Elizabeth, seems to have disappeared?? I thought to check, as given that theres such a lot of info, it seems likely that this is just a typo?

You mentioned to look at the 1871 census so I put that into google and went on findmypast (is there another free site that you would recommend?) and I put in the birth date of John Star and where he was born - but it didn’t bring up any information.

Yes, I’d be very interested in looking at the Holden Tree too! :) .. I thought that a relative had searched one of the paid ancestry sites for information on the Starr family and found nothing - so well done for tuning stuff up on the Holden and Starr side!!

Thanks again :)

Fiona
42aitch
Posts: 485
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:47 am
Location: Litherland

Hi Fiona

Firstly no typo error on Isabellas age on 1881 (38) and 1891 (47). Also they were down as Star on both these census returns. But looking at Frances her mother she is down as Minsbey in 1881 and Monsley 1891. To add to the confusion the 1871 Census shown below
Bull Lane, Ely, Cambridgeshire
John Star - 27
Isabella Star - 26
Maria Star - 4
John Star - 2
Isaac Star - 1
Frances Allensby - 44 (Mother in law)

Isabella Powley Allensby married John William Starr 13/9/1864 at Wesleyan Chapel, Ely. Cambridgeshire

Isabella Powley was christened 28/10/1845 at Narburgh - Mother Frances Powley - no Father named
Her mother Frances Powley married Edmund Allensby 27/10/1845 at Narburgh, Norfolk

Isabella Starr died in 1898 and was buried 28/8/1898 at Walton Park Cemetery, Liverpool

1901 Census for 13 Olivia Street Bootle shows Mother Frances Allensby with Grand-daughter Mary (Nee Starr) as below

George Langrick - 38
Mary Langrick - 35
Frances Langrick - 9
May Langrick - 7
John Langrick - 2
Frances Allensby - 78 - Grandmother
John Starr - 28 - Boarder
Edmund Starr - 22 - Boarder

I couldn't find any marriages for Frances between her marriage to Edmund Allensby so I think that maybe the incorrect surnames are errors by the enumerator of the census. Maybe couldn't understand the Norfolk accent. However Frances Allensby died in 1904 and was buried 23/10/1904 at Walton Cemetery. Her address was Walton Workhouse.

Just a couple more things for you Two Marriages at Bootle St Mary's = Mary Starr married George Lanrick 8/3/1891 and Frances Starr married Thomas Walters 2/4/1893 both girls gave address as 3 Bangor Street. Free BMD show a death for Elizabeth Starr age 0 in June quarter 1881.

All this I found on Ancestry.co.uk

Eileen
Litherland girl with Bootle parents.
FionaDodd
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:51 pm

Hey Eileen .. thanks so much for the info :)

It does seem really interesting/confusing haha .. In the 1871 census there are 3 children (Maria, John, and Isaac Starr) who aren't on any of the other census’ (although there is another John Starr Junior later on - but not sure this could be the same John - as the ages don't match).

Thanks for clearing the confusion about Elizabeth Starr.

I’m slightly confused about Mary Langrick, previously Starr? (who on her marriage documents put her address as 3 Bangor Street) .. unless she's the Maria Starr who was born in Ely in the 1871 Census (and then seemingly disappears from the 1881 and 1891 census!?).

I’m also curious to know more about why Frances Allensby would have been in a workhouse in her 80’s .. I’ll have to look on google for info about that.

My family have been fascinated by the information you’ve given us .. I was also able to find Frances’ parents too - Isaac Powley and Sarah Bell (possibly) - on a Narborough Church website .. so now looking into that too. Its amazing to be able to go so far back!

Thanks so much for your help :)

Fiona
Ainsworth
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2020 8:41 pm

Hi Helen my nan was born in 1907 and her name was Isabella Starr I am following her family tree and think that she was ure fathers sister she grew up in bootle , she had 4 children David Sidney Leslie and my mother Pamela ,I was wondering if you have ever heard that he had a sister called Isabella and if any of your findings have heard about my mother
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ALAMO2008
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Location: Aberystwyth

In 1911 my Granddad and Grandmother lived at 25 Willard St and had a Son Samuel Chapman born there in 1911
Lustarr
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed May 27, 2020 10:32 pm

Hi to anyone researching the Starr family history. I am currently researching my family history too and came across this post. I've traced Ralph Thomas Starr on my tree and he would be my 3rd cousin. I never really met much of the Starr side of my family. I have however made some progress on that side of the tree and my Dad has memories of some of the family. I can always ask him anything and see if he knows any info you want to know.
Hopefully we can chat and work together on the tree?
Hope to hear from you soon
Laura :)
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