I'd be very grateful for the help/advice of the "Genies

[Graham@educato]

Wow ! What a brilliant piece of detective work. The name Turney rings loud bells. Likewise Bird. These were the maiden names of my aunties and I think that the son William (Billy) was also called Turney.

[Graham@educato]

Hi Jan...I'm sure it is. Uncle Gerry was my mum's younger brother

[Jan]

Francis Bird died in 1925 age 31, he is buried in Ford 16th Feb 1925, his address 15 Carnarvon Street.

I also found his baptism 1893, there is a note on it saying that he married Margaret Turney 3rd Dec 1921.

Jan

[glossybonce]

Seems that she had one child with Francis Bird.

Births Sep 1922  
Bird  Mary  Muirhead  W.Derby  8b 739   

William 1911, John 1915 and Ellen 1919 with William Turney and Margaret and Gerald with Tommy Robinson.

So we know her own father was John Muirhead now to find his family and Tommy Robinson's .

I wonder if the family she was boarding with in 1911 were related to her future husband to be.

[glossybonce]

Francis Bird died in 1925 age 31, he is buried in Ford 16th Feb 1925, his address 15 Carnarvon Street.

I also found his baptism 1893, there is a note on it saying that he married Margaret Turney 3rd Dec 1921.

Jan

Good find Jan
Our posts crossed, been ages since we done a tasty one together.

[Graham@educato]

Hi Glossy...This one child, Mary Bird, we knew as Aunty Maisy. I learnt that her name was actually Mary when I met up with her in New Zealand about 15yrs ago. She was then using her given name. She had emigrated in the early 50s with her husband Jacky Ryder. I thought that she was the oldest of the sisters, evidently not, that was aunty Nellie (Ellen Turney). Revelations, revelations.

[Graham@educato]

Hi Glossy...This one child, Mary Bird, we knew as Aunty Maisy. I learnt that her name was actually Mary when I met up with her in New Zealand about 15yrs ago. She was then using her given name. She had emigrated in the early 50s with her husband Jacky Ryder. I thought that she was the oldest of the sisters, evidently not, that was aunty Nellie (Ellen Turney). Revelations, revelations.

[glossybonce]

It's surprising what you can unearth when you find the facts out, people using names that are not the correct birth names, that's when it gets hard, obviously, common names like Billy and Tommy are easy to find the 'Sunday' name for but some people used middle names as Christian names and then it really does get confusing. And when you hear the names it triggers off a memory that you forgot, like you remembering Turney and Bird after we found them.

Hopefully we can get a bit further back on this side of your family now.

[glossybonce]

Found this in 1901
looks like
Beatrice St Everton.

Margaret Cavanagh 33 married Head
John Cavanagh 12 son
Magaret Muirhead 9 step daughter
Rollen Muirhead 8 (reads Ellen) step daughter
Edward Moore 29
John J Moore

Can't find the father John, the marriage of Margaret to William Turney was witnessed by Ellen Muirhead.

Her sister Ellen married in 1912 to James Oliver address, Regent St, witness John Kavanagh.

Can't work out whose daughter Ellen is? maybe her father John Muirhead died and the mother is Margaret remarried, but on the other census there was no father listed and she still put step daughters.
1911 Gilbert St Park Lane.

Name Age
John Kavanagh 52
Margaret Kavanagh 43
John Pate Kavanagh 22 son
Ellen Muirhead 18 step daughter.
James Olivers 21

[lily8]

Here is a possible for your Gt Uncle Hugh

[Jan]

Great work girls,

John Kavanagh married Margaret Muirhead in 1898. GRO reg

Name: John Kavanagh
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1898
Registration district: Liverpool
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume Number: 8b
Page Number: 173
Records on Page: Name
John Harper
John Kavanagh
Sarah Marshall
Margaret Muirhead

Lancs BMD has a mis-spelling

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1898
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
KAVANAGH John MINSHEAD Margaret Liverpool, Our Lady & St. Nicholas & St. Anne Liverpool 2053LP/85/242

Jan

[lily8]

Great stuff Gilrs

Some info on Hughs' ship the Lapland

http://www.titanic-titanic.com/lapland.shtml

[glossybonce]

Great finds ladies, love the photo of Hugh, he is gorgeous only looks about 15.

Is this her first marriage?
Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1890
MUIRHEAD John O'BRIEN Margaret Liverpool, All Saints Liverpool 2019LP/6/355



Note John is a widower, but doing the maths Margaret O'Brien is the mother of the girls.

[glossybonce]

Could this be Tommy Robinsons death reg.


England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2007

Name:Thomas J Robinson
Birth Date: abt 1900
Date of Registration:Mar 1959
Age at Death:59
Registration district:Liverpool North
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume:10d Page:392

[Graham@educato]

Hi Glossy...I think that is the death reg of Tommy Robinson. I thought he died in his late fifties and that he died in the late fifties. I have strong memories of him, coming to South Park Square every Friday to see us with loads of sweets and giving me a half crown. That stopped around 1958/59. I never knew he was born in 1900 but that fits perfectly.

[glossybonce]

could this be his family?

1901
56 Wykeham St Kirkdale
Archibald Robinson 34 carter born Angelsey or Tebay Westmoreland depending on which census you look at!
Mary Robinson 30
William Robinson 10
John Robinson 8
Archibald Robinson 5
Thomas J Robinson 2 Months
Elizabeth Derbyshire 19
Henry Bridge 24


1911
56 Wykeham St Kirkdale.
Archibald R Robinson 44
Mary Robinson 39
William Robinson 20
John Robinson 19
Gustaves R Robinson 15 (reads Archibald)
Thomas Robinson 10
Harry Robinson 7
Joseph Robinson 3
Leslie Robinson 1

[Graham@educato]

Hi Glossy....I would guess that this is Tommy's family. First because the name Archy rings a dim and distant bell in my memory. Second, and more positively, because my younger brother - who was close to Tommy's son Gerry, particularly in the last 10yrs of his life - spoke of an "uncle Archy". I have also found out that my dad's dad, Jimmy Cunningham died in 1947, when he was 50. I knew he'd died young. He died the year before I was born so its no wonder that I have no memory of him at all.
I'd like to thank you, Jan and Lily8 for the hard detective work you put into this. Its like found money !

[Jan]

Hi Graham,

Archibald Robert Robinson (Tommy's dad) married Mary Crosby.

Name: Archibald Robert Robinson
Birth Year: abt 1867
Age: 22
Marriage Date: 11 Aug 1889
Parish: Edge Hill, St Catherine
Spouse's Name: Mary Crosby
Father's Name: John Robinson
Spouse Father's Name: William Crosby
Reference Number: 283 CAT/3/2

He died in 1940.

Name: Archibald R Robinson
Birth Date: abt 1867
Date of Registration: Mar 1940
Age at Death: 73
Registration district: Liverpool North
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8d
Page: 1079

If you would like us to go back in census with Archie R Robinson I have found him in census from 1871?

Jan

[Graham@educato]

Hi Jan...Yes please ! I'm still struggling to get my head around the material documenting my mother's side of the family, which I thought I knew more about because I had regular weekly contact with them for the first decade or so of my life, but its labyrinthine in its complexity - to me at least. One question that is vexing me re my father's side is "What happened to John Cunningham's four sons?". Hugh died in Preston 1962. Jimmy died in Bootle in 1947, but what happened to Edward and John Jnr. Edward would have been 23 at the outbreak of WW1, and John Jnr 21. Did they join up? If so, given what appears to be a family pattern, it would most likely have been the Royal Navy, but what happened to them? I can't help wondering why my dad, born just before the war ended in 1918, was called John Edward. Was it, as I can't help suspecting, a mark of respect by Jimmy to his fallen brother(s)? I'd never heard mention made of them, never even knew of their existence until this last week when you and Glossy and Lily8 dug it up. Purely intuition I know but......

[lily8]

Hi Graham often it is intuition that provides a key in genealogy I will have a look tomorrow again and see if there are any possible war records.

Girls you have done a sterling job as usual

[glossybonce]

Hi Graham

Going with your intuition I checked out the CWGC site I found a John Cunningham, but no telling if he is your relative as no other details available when you click his name.

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead.aspx?cpage=2

Sorry not much luck finding Edward either

[Jan]

Hi Graham,

Here are the 1871 census details for Archibald R Robinson (with his parents and family).

RG10 piece 5272 folio 59 page 16 4 Station Cottages Tebay Orton parish.

John Robinson head married age 29 Loco engine driver born Westmorland
Ellen wife age 33 born Lancashire Sunnyside
Henry son age 10 born Westmorland Kendal
Elizabeth dau age 8 bn Kendal
Joseph son age 6 bn Orton
ARCHIBALD R son age 4 bn Orton
John son age 2 bn Orton
James son age 9 months born Orton

1881 RG11 3665 folio 24 page 42 4 Eastlake Street Everton.

John Robinson age 39
Ellen wife age 43
Henry son age 20
Elizabeth j dau age 18
Joseph son age 16
Archibald R (transcribed on ancestry as A) but it is R. age 14
John son age 12born Tebay
William son age 8 born Tebay
Richard son age 4 born Preston
David son age 2 born Liverpool
Elizabeth Robinson sister in law age 38 widow born Kendal
John Archibald Robinson nephew age 4 born Liverpool

1891 RG12 piece 2966 folio 46 page 33

John and Ellen Robinson are at #48 Lambeth Road Kirkdale along with their kids

William
Richard
David
and an addition to the family Charles Robinson age 9 born Liverpool.

I think John Robinson married Ellen Dugan in Blackburn 1860.

Hope that helps.

Jan

[Graham@educato]

I'd like to express my deep gratitude, a very special thanks, to Glossy, Jan and Lily8 for what you did for me. I've wanted what you gave me for such a long time. Graham

[Honey]

I would like to know if Kevyn is still alive I am related to him through the Blanes.My Mother often talked about him and his Mother and we followed The Silkies in the 60’s.He is so like my younger Uncle and some of my cousins.Raewyn NZ quote]

Hi Glossy..the Blane/Cunningham link is very relevant and linked to the family in the following way. Blane was the maiden name of Victoria, the first wife of my dad John Edward Cunningham. She was killed during an air raid during the second WW. Her parents, the Blanes, then took over the raising of Victoria and John's child, Kevyn Cunningham (born in August 1940) because John was away in the Royal Navy. Upon his return after the war the Blanes refused to give Kevyn back to my dad and after a bitter and protracted legal dispute the courts awarded custody to Kevyn to the Blanes. The Blanes were strict Salvation Army people who lived in Downing Rd until they died. I hope this helps

[Honey]

Hi All I am related through the Blanes and my Mother often talked about Kevyn is he still alive
I have seen photos and he is very like my younger uncle and some of my cousins.I would love to be able to make contact with him or any of his descendants,
Honey NZ

[filsgreen]

Welcome to the forum, Honey. I'm sure one of our fantastic Genies will be along shortly to help you.