some delamere!s

Find Bootle friends and family here
Post Reply
frank delamere
Posts: 1028
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:26 pm
Location: dublin, ireland

can someone help?i have a THOMAS DELAMERE [farmer] who married CHARLOTTE MUCH, at st anne richmond in liverpool 24/12/1822
both lived in the liverpool parish.

i also have a SARAH DELAMERE who married in west derby march 1838
but have no further information

my g,g grandfather john delamere was born 1806, but cannot find any proof
of his birth [he could have been born over the blanket ] i do have his marriage and death dates.

i am left wondering, could they be related

frank
42aitch
Posts: 493
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:47 am
Location: Litherland

Hi Frank

I think it is possible that your Sarah married James Ainsworth as I have found them in 1841 census at Derby Cottage, Walton on the Hill. Checked for the other possible spouse names but nothing that seemed to match.

James was born 1811 Sarah 1816 and they had children Harriot b 1839 and Catherine b 1841 (10 months so should be 1840)

Couldn't find their marriage on Lancs BMD which may have given a church. If you think they may be related you need to get the marriage certificate. Do you think that the family always lived in Lancashire?

Eileen
Litherland girl with Bootle parents.
lily8
Posts: 11337
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:57 am
Location: Far North Queensland Australia

The problem in linking people lies in the lack of paperwork trail prior to civil registrations. If you have the marriage details of your Gt GT Grandfather it should list his father but not always, might be best to list exactly what you have including dates etc witnesses and so forth.
Lily
frank delamere
Posts: 1028
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:26 pm
Location: dublin, ireland

42aitch wrote:Hi Frank

I think it is possible that your Sarah married James Ainsworth as I have found them in 1841 census at Derby Cottage, Walton on the Hill. Checked for the other possible spouse names but nothing that seemed to match.

James was born 1811 Sarah 1816 and they had children Harriot b 1839 and Catherine b 1841 (10 months so should be 1840)

Couldn't find their marriage on Lancs BMD which may have given a church. If you think they may be related you need to get the marriage certificate. Do you think that the family always lived in Lancashire?

Eileen
hi EILEEN, "thank you" for your help. i have not looked at them as yet,
i am just trying to make connections. johnwas supposed to have been born 1806, sarah 1816, and i have another daniel born 1818.
now daniel was born in upton. he was a shopkeeper, and farmer.
but in anglesy. funny enough one of his sons ended up in great crosby, were all my family originate from, he lived a few doors away from one relly. [i take it that he was a relly also.] but i need john, daniel and sarahs parents name to confirm it.

frank
frank delamere
Posts: 1028
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:26 pm
Location: dublin, ireland

lily8 wrote:The problem in linking people lies in the lack of paperwork trail prior to civil registrations. If you have the marriage details of your Gt GT Grandfather it should list his father but not always, might be best to list exactly what you have including dates etc witnesses and so forth.
hi LILY8 my gt, gt gt grandfathers details.
he married MARY CADDICK in st nicholas church liverpool 23rd january 1837
witnesses=margaret caddick, and edward lovatt.
liverpool butcher, she was a spinster.
his death cert shows he died 7th january 1858 aged 52yrs village, great crosby. informant =richard caddick
no parents names mentioned.
on his wedding he was spelt JOHN DELLAMERE
a similiar thing happened to his son, at st peter and paul, in crosby.
but he had it changed

the one i surmise? could be his brother is DANIEL DELAMERE
born 1818 [in upton cheshire ] he first married in liverpool then lived in anglesy. he was a provision dealer, plus farmer. one of is sons, a butcher also
came to live in great crosby.

i also queried about thomas delamere marriage. his details

THOMAS DELAMERE farmer [liverpool parish ]married CHARLOTTE MUCH
spinster [liverpool parish ] 24th december 1882 at st anne richmond
place= liverpool

frank
lily8
Posts: 11337
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:57 am
Location: Far North Queensland Australia

1841 census for John and mary mistranscribed as May: living in close proximty to the Caddick families in Gt Crosby.

Dellamere
Age: 46
Estimated birth year: abt 1805 Relation: Head
Spouse's name: May
Gender: Male
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England

John Dellamere 46
May Dellamere 37
John Dellamere 13
Catherine Dellamere 8
William Dellamere 2
Thomas Dellamere 5 Mo


One to ponder on for a parent to John, who names a son William?
1841 census ages rounded down by 5 or so years.

William Delamore
Age: 57
Estimated birth year: abt 1784
Gender: Male

Civil parish: Sephton
Hundred: West Derby
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: Litherland
William Delamore 57 Was not born in the parish
Ann Delamore 47
Alice Delamore 7

Lily
42aitch
Posts: 493
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:47 am
Location: Litherland

Hi Lily

The only problem with the 1841 John & May Dellamere is that their son John appears to have been born c1828 and daughter Catherine in 1833 and John and Mary only married in 1837. Not unknown I know but as we know ages were also put down incorrectly so much.

May need to look for christenings of the children to confirm if they are the correct family. If they were RC I might be able to check St. Peter & Pauls.


Eileen
Litherland girl with Bootle parents.
lily8
Posts: 11337
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:57 am
Location: Far North Queensland Australia

Hi Eileen :P

Perhaps our poster can give us details that he has of the first census he has his family in? then we can all attack it from the same angle??? there are a few possible Johns but the ages vary by 10 to 12 years :shock:
Lily
frank delamere
Posts: 1028
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:26 pm
Location: dublin, ireland

EILEEN, LILY,"sorry" for the late reply. i was cleaning out computer.
in answer to your queries, i have the following

1841 census =village great crosby
john delamere 35yrs butcher
mary 37yrs [wrong ]
john 2yrs

1851 census = the green great crosby [no number]
john delamere butcher born liverpool. employing one lad.
mary 37yrs born great crosby
john 13yrs scholar born great crosby
catherine 8yrs scholar born great crosby
william 2yrs born great crosby
thomas 5months born great crobsy

1861 census little crosby lodge. great crosby
margaret caddick widow 74yrs born formby
mary delamere daughter, married widow 49yrs butchers widow born great crosby
alice caddick 23yrs labourer born liverpool

1871 census crosby
mary delamere 58yrs widow charwoman
thomas delamere son 20yrs butchers journeyman
both lived at 12 east street. with the bull family

frank delamere
lily8
Posts: 11337
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:57 am
Location: Far North Queensland Australia

Hi Eileen sorry mate, I made a typo on the census it was 1851 and tallies with our posters 1851 records. Looking at it again I would make the following assumptions the 1841 has our man as born in the county (Lancs) and the 1851 as born in Liverpool so born Liverpool Lancs. The Caddick side is easy to trace but that is not wanted, the wedding cert only confirms the Caddick line with the witnesses. So we are left with the 1861 census where Mary is a 49 year old widow living with her mum and sister Alice, but where are her younger children?? Catherine would have been 18 Married? William would have been 12 and Thomas 10 and a half. Have searched 1861 for the three but no sightings, did the 2 younger boys die? will keep chipping away! Here is everything from IGI under anything like Delemere.
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/ ... e=DeleMere
Lily
frank delamere
Posts: 1028
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:26 pm
Location: dublin, ireland

LILY, EILEEN,here are the details
john delamere born 1806, died 7/1/1858 aged 52yrs butcher
married 23/1/1837 in st nicholas
mary caddick born 26/4/1814, died 2/3/1874 buried st peter/paul.62yrs

children

john born 13/4/1839, died 29/5/1892, 53yrs butcher, buried st peter/paul
married 13/4/1861 at st peter /pauls great crosby
mary barton, born 1848, died 15/5/1890 42yrs. st peter/pauls

catherine born 1843, died 27/8/1858 15yrs

william born 17/5/1848, died 20/3/1887 40yrs. butcher
married 1872. margaret rimmer, born 1848, died

thomas born 1851, died 26/6/1893 43yrs butcher
married 1880. jane pilling born 1860. died 24/9/1907. 47yrs

i think that should help you both, hopefully
frank
frank delamere
Posts: 1028
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:26 pm
Location: dublin, ireland

i expect that my query is dead now???
"thank you" for your help though
frank
lily8
Posts: 11337
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:57 am
Location: Far North Queensland Australia

Still looking it's is not an easy one!
Lily
frank delamere
Posts: 1028
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:26 pm
Location: dublin, ireland

LILY, don!t take me up wrong, i am fully aware it!s a hard one.
that was my reason in asking for help. sorry if you felt offended

frank
lily8
Posts: 11337
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:57 am
Location: Far North Queensland Australia

Not offended at all ,some just take a long time to work out.
Lily
lily8
Posts: 11337
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:57 am
Location: Far North Queensland Australia

So the 1861 census showing John 23 journeyman butcher and William 13 apprentice butcher working for James Fleetwood cow butcher of Liverpool Lane Great Crosby are definitely your two???. Just trying to eliminate other avenues,
Lily
lily8
Posts: 11337
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:57 am
Location: Far North Queensland Australia

further census 1861 Thomas Delleman b 1850 I assume this to be Thomas Delemere residing in the village Gt Crosby with the Caddick family of Joseph head, his wife Margaret and their son Peter listed as nephew can you confirm that we now have all the living Delemeres placed correctly in 1861?
Lily
frank delamere
Posts: 1028
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:26 pm
Location: dublin, ireland

LILY, 1861 CENSUS THOMAS DELLEMAN CANNOT BE MINE. NOR COULD HE BE RESIDING WITH THE CADDICK FAMILY. THE REASON BEING THAT
JOSEPH CADDICK WAS DEAD

i have already put up the census but here we are 1861
1861 census
little crosby lodge, village green great crosby. lancashire
margaret caddick head/widow 74yrs labourers wife born formby
mary delamere dau, married/widow49yrs butchers wife born great crosby
alice caddick, grandaughter unmarried,23yrs labourer born liverpool

thomas delamere was born1851 he died 26/06/1893

frank
lily8
Posts: 11337
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:57 am
Location: Far North Queensland Australia

You might want to e-visit that one for Thomas DELLEMEN I think, here is a transcript of it: It did take some time to find it and I was hoping to find the boys somewhere with a Delemere relative. Can you please have another look at your records as I am fairly sure this is Thomas Delemere, of course as with all things I could be quite wrong. However logic would say it's a fit.

Name: Thomas Delleman
Age: 10
Estimated birth year: abt 1851
Relation: Nephew
Gender: Male
Where born: Gt Crosby, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Great Crosby
Ecclesiastical parish: Sephton
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: Crosby
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 221
Household Members: Name Age
Joseph Caddick 35
Margaret Caddick 36
Peter Caddick 10
Thomas Delleman 10
Last edited by lily8 on Sat Jul 17, 2010 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Lily
frank delamere
Posts: 1028
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:26 pm
Location: dublin, ireland

LILY,i shall try and check it out tomorrow, "thank you"

frank
lily8
Posts: 11337
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:57 am
Location: Far North Queensland Australia

Looking through the IGI records they have the marriage listed as DELLAMORE have you actually seen the microfilm record? as there are a few Dellamore/Delamore marriages recorded also at St Nicholas within a 5 year period who may possibly be siblings to John who married 23/1/1837. Ancestry also has John listed as Dellaman in 1841 census though to me it looks like Dellamore/Dellamere. As you know transcriptions can be mistaken and often based on what the enumerator "Heard". It is probably worth pursuing the Dellamore/Delamore name more fully. Will get back to you.
Lily
frank delamere
Posts: 1028
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:26 pm
Location: dublin, ireland

LILY, it certainly seems like thomas dellemen [wrong spelling] was one of mine. the caddicks would be his relatives.

regarding the delamores/ delamares/delemers/ i have been in contact with numerous people of these names, over the years. also, some contacted me about the similarity, but unfortunately there is no connection.

my reason for wanting this, is i have the whole family history from the start of the family name in 960 when ROLLO THE DANE married princess GRISELDA the daughter of KING SIMPLE of france. being a great seaman, on their marriage he took the name of DELAMERE [OF THE SEA]
i have all the marriages and connections right up to 1854 for ireland.
through this, i have connected four families to their full family tree
because i do not have my g,g,g,grandfathers birth cert or baptism
i cannot make the connection to either the english or irish side.
there are one or two from cheshire, who look likely, but they are not positive.
i really do appreciate the help which you have been offering to me.
i also have my grandmothers family tree back to the 1500s

frank
lily8
Posts: 11337
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:57 am
Location: Far North Queensland Australia

I will keep on quietly ferreting for the missing link.
Lily
42aitch
Posts: 493
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:47 am
Location: Litherland

Hi Frank

Like Lily, I have found difficulty in finding anything other than what Lily has found. I think that maybe you will have to consider that you have found the Brick Wall that we can all encounter when trying to research our family history.

Although in your case maybe the relatives from your tree have been hiding in a Forest in Cheshire - Delamere :lol:

Sorry I can't be of more help Frank.

Eileen
Litherland girl with Bootle parents.
frank delamere
Posts: 1028
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:26 pm
Location: dublin, ireland

LILY, EILEEN, "THANK YOU" both, for your efforts.i have tried for ten years,
so could hardly expect you both, to find it in a week.your help was, and is
appreciated.

frank
Chris Ryan
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat May 08, 2021 9:32 pm

Fao Frank. (11 years later).
I have found John and Sarah Delamere - well, their gravestone in Overchurch woods near Upton, Wirral ( where there used to be a church). The gravestone is partly legible ( am going to go back with soap, water and a scourer. I have photos taken today.
The gravestone next to John and Sarah is Ann Delamere, daughter of Dan and Marey or Marcy.
Here’s a doc about the church (Overchurch) and surrounding history. https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/shee ... page47.pdf
The church was demolished in 1887 - perhaps the burial records went to St Mary’s in Upton?
Image
Image
Chris Ryan
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat May 08, 2021 9:32 pm

Sorry, church was demolished 1813.
Sheelagh Tequila
Posts: 2044
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 11:17 pm
Location: Formby

Hello Chris, sorry but Frank and his wife Maura passed away in 2013

Sheelagh
Chris Ryan
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat May 08, 2021 9:32 pm

Thanks for letting me know, Sheelagh. Sorry to hear.
lynne99
Posts: 1444
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:55 pm
Location: Rugby

Please don't scour old grave stones. It might well damage them further. Do a rubbing or cover with tin foil and push it into the letters with a scrubbing brush and then sprinkle on flour. Messy to clean up though , unless you parcel it up with the foil and through in the bin or take home
Lynne
Post Reply