Deal or no Deal ?

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Re: Deal or no Deal ?

Postby Bonesy » Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:43 pm

I agree Dan. By one way or another I believe we will end up remaining :(


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Re: Deal or no Deal ?

Postby Patricia » Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:52 pm

Dan - As the saying goes: "Hindsight is 20/20!" :D

Keith - My brother Keith will be absolutely delighted if that is indeed the outcome. He
was against it from the beginning,
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Re: Deal or no Deal ?

Postby Dan » Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:09 pm

History, Hindsight.
Both begin with H.
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Re: Deal or no Deal ?

Postby Patricia » Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:45 pm

Lets not forget HOPE! "Optimism about a future event," a
favorite of mine...........Patricia :D
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Re: Deal or no Deal ?

Postby Invicta » Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:29 am

Well , she rides again but the horse is lame.
Next step the Europeans will say OK we’ll ease up on the Irish Backstop but the divorce bill goes up to £45 Billion :shock:

The Irish ( Eire ) have too much to say in this, wasn’t it just back in 2008/9 that we bailed them out?
Their economy has much more to lose than ours :wink: Ken
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Re: Deal or no Deal ?

Postby Bonesy » Sat Dec 15, 2018 12:37 pm

What an former Prime Minister of Australia had to say

Former Australian PM Tony Abbott...

"It’s pretty hard for Britain’s friends, here in Australia, to make sense of the mess that’s being made of Brexit. The referendum result was perhaps the biggest-ever vote of confidence in the United Kingdom, its past and its future. But the British establishment doesn’t seem to share that confidence and instead looks desperate to cut a deal, even if that means staying under the rule of Brussels. Looking at this from abroad, it’s baffling: the country that did the most to bring democracy into the modern world might yet throw away the chance to take charge of its own destiny.

Let’s get one thing straight: a negotiation that you’re not prepared to walk away from is not a negotiation — it’s surrender. It’s all give and no get. When David Cameron tried to renegotiate Britain’s EU membership, he was sent packing because Brussels judged (rightly) that he’d never actually back leaving. And since then, Brussels has made no real concessions to Theresa May because it judges (rightly, it seems) that she’s desperate for whatever deal she can get.

The EU’s palpable desire to punish Britain for leaving vindicates the Brexit project. Its position, now, is that there’s only one ‘deal’ on offer, whereby the UK retains all of the burdens of EU membership but with no say in setting the rules. The EU seems to think that Britain will go along with this because it’s terrified of no deal. Or, to put it another way, terrified of the prospect of its own independence.

But even after two years of fearmongering and vacillation, it’s not too late for robust leadership to deliver the Brexit that people voted for. It’s time for Britain to announce what it will do if the EU can’t make an acceptable offer by March 29 next year — and how it would handle no deal. Freed from EU rules, Britain would automatically revert to world trade, using rules agreed by the World Trade Organization. It works pretty well for Australia. So why on earth would it not work just as well for the world’s fifth-largest economy?

A world trade Brexit lets Britain set its own rules. It can say, right now, that it will not impose any tariff or quota on European produce and would recognise all EU product standards. That means no border controls for goods coming from Europe to Britain. You don’t need to negotiate this: just do it. If Europe knows what’s in its own best interests, it would fully reciprocate in order to maintain entirely free trade and full mutual recognition of standards right across Europe.

Next, the UK should declare that Europeans already living here should have the right to remain permanently — and, of course, become British citizens if they wish. This should be a unilateral offer. Again, you don’t need a deal. You don’t need Michel Barnier’s permission. If Europe knows what’s best for itself, it would likewise allow Britons to stay where they are.

Third, there should continue to be free movement of people from Europe into Britain — but with a few conditions. Only for work, not welfare. And with a foreign worker’s tax on the employer, to make sure anyone coming in would not be displacing British workers.

Fourth, no ‘divorce bill’ whatsoever should be paid to Brussels. The UK government would assume the EU’s property and liabilities in Britain, and the EU would assume Britain’s share of these in Europe. If Britain was getting its fair share, these would balance out; and if Britain wasn’t getting its fair share, it’s the EU that should be paying Britain.

Finally, there’s no need on Britain’s part for a hard border with Ireland. Britain wouldn’t be imposing tariffs on European goods, so there’s no money to collect. The UK has exactly the same product standards as the Republic, so let’s not pretend you need to check for problems we all know don’t exist. Some changes may be needed but technology allows for smart borders: there was never any need for a Cold War-style Checkpoint Charlie. Irish citizens, of course, have the right to live and work in the UK in an agreement that long predates EU membership.

Of course, the EU might not like this British leap for independence. It might hit out with tariffs and impose burdens on Britain as it does on the US — but WTO rules put a cap on any retaliatory action. The worst it can get? We’re talking levies of an average 4 or 5 per cent. Which would be more than offset by a post-Brexit devaluation of the pound (which would have the added bonus of making British goods more competitive everywhere).

UK officialdom assumes that a deal is vital, which is why so little thought has been put into how Britain might just walk away. Instead, officials have concocted lurid scenarios featuring runs on the pound, gridlock at ports, grounded aircraft, hoarding of medicines and flights of investment. It’s been the pre-referendum Project Fear campaign on steroids. And let’s not forget how employment, investment and economic growth ticked up after the referendum.

As a former prime minister of Australia and a lifelong friend of your country, I would say this: Britain has nothing to lose except the shackles that the EU imposes on it. After the courage shown by its citizens in the referendum, it would be a tragedy if political leaders go wobbly now. Britain’s future has always been global, rather than just with Europe. Like so many of Britain’s admirers, I want to see this great country seize this chance and make the most of it."

Tony Abbott served as Prime Minister of Australia from 2013 to 2015


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Re: Deal or no Deal ?

Postby Ernie Jackson. (Bunty) » Sat Dec 15, 2018 3:23 pm

Nice to read and digest an unbiased politicians review. :D
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Re: Deal or no Deal ?

Postby Invicta » Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:08 pm

Jeez, if we don’t have enough of our own politicians boring the socks off us, last thing we need is some Aussie with too much time on his hands chipping in :wink: Ken
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Re: Deal or no Deal ?

Postby Shelagh » Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:13 pm

Enjoyed the post, Keith!
Oh! if only we had leaders with such common sense...Tony Abbott could show us how it’s done!
Practical, no nonsense, approach - would certainly help put an end to ongoing quagmire of confusion that Britain has landed itself in!!
How is it, that a straight talking (Aussie) can see a solution to Britain’s problems, when our leaders can’t seem to agree on anything whatsoever!
Self-serving, manipulative, In-house fighting and backstabbing, being the order of the day - nothing being achieved!
All we see, Theresa May (prime minister) running back and forth to Brussels, begging, pleading, humiliating herself and country (Please stop now Theresa) leave us with some dignity!!
Don’t know what BBs abroad are making of all this, but, as things stand, more than half the country now want a second referendum, not sure how that would pan out, (bit like crawling back to a broken marriage) can’t see what good it would do!!
Deal the P.M. came back with - unacceptable to majority of the country..
She, (P.M) now wants the support of the country, (how the mighty have fallen) very hypocritical, Theresa May with right wing circle of elitists, deliberately excluded everybody from negotiations!!
Following groups excluded for two years of Brexit negotiations;
Opposition MPs - devolved parliaments - UK businesses leaders - trade unions - academics and experts - charities - civic society - and anyone else with a mouth. She also fought tooth and nail to sideline parliamentary democracy too!
Brexit being purely in the Tory party interest!!!
The elite little circle managed to achieve something though - first time in UK History for Contempt Of Parliament!!
If only they could get something right....be it legal or in the interest of the country!!
Quagmire continues;
If Theresa should be removed, what are we left with - Boris Johnson - Jacob Rees-Mogg - Michael Gove!!

Ken Clarke (conservative) his opinion on following three;
Boris Johnson = good for a laugh :lol: but couldn’t run a whelk stall!
Jacob Rees-Mogg = behind the times, thinks Britain is a vassal state!!
Michael Gove = more right wing than any right wing Tory. Ken Clarke (in an interview) said Michael Gove’s eyes light up at very mention of war, says M.G would like nothing more than three wars going on at once. (enough said)

Brexit options :arrow: Second Referendum - accept this deal - no deal at all!

A sensible pre Brexit strategy from the start - would have saved all this time and confusion!!

Same repetitive rhetoric “This is the Brexit the country voted for” - - - NO IT ISN'T!!

Shelagh!
Last edited by Shelagh on Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Deal or no Deal ?

Postby Invicta » Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:46 pm

Back to my original post
"Party preferences aside"!
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Re: Deal or no Deal ?

Postby Margie mc » Sat Dec 15, 2018 7:32 pm

There is one way out of this terrible mess. If the U.K. were to declare war on the rest of the E.U. then all treaties and agreements would become null and void. The following week declare victory, the E.U. would then have to negotiate terms with the U.K. with Mrs May in the drivers seat.
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Re: Deal or no Deal ?

Postby Shelagh » Sat Dec 15, 2018 7:35 pm

Ken; No party preferences shown or referred to in previous post!
Surprised that my post came across as prejudiced - Certainly not my intention to side with ANY party!

Don’t often post on political matters - find the more honest you try to be, the harder you make things for yourself!

Every word of my post, I believe to be true - wouldn’t print it otherwise..latter part of post, re; analogy of potential hapless characters (may or may not) take over the leadership..all names mentioned during BBC4 interview, given by Ken Clarke, only yesterday - can hardly accuse the BBC of being a left wing organisation!!

Also - never once implied that Labour Party, Jeremy Corbyn or any other party had answers to Britain’s current dilemma!!
Any sort of political agenda, would surely have suggested an election!!

If the previous post has caused offence, then I’m willing to offer an apology and edit the offending post!!

By the way, if I were to put confidence in any politician - would probably be Caroline Lucas (Green Party) only person, so far, to make any sense of it all!

Shelagh!
Last edited by Shelagh on Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Deal or no Deal ?

Postby Invicta » Sat Dec 15, 2018 8:05 pm

No need for apologies Shelagh.
Interestingly only public comments today from Amber Rudd and Jo Johnson both Tory Remainers. Labour keeping a low profile, watching Tories implode and will likely press for a No Confidence vote in the next few weeks but they are nervous as they too are split.
Personally I think something will happen and there will be a deal supported by elements of all parties.
I have seen Ms Lucas speak, she is a class act but irrelevant on her own. K
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Re: Deal or no Deal ?

Postby Ernie Jackson. (Bunty) » Sat Dec 15, 2018 9:10 pm

The country voted to come out (I didn't) so we are OUT, whatever way, and the 27 left can sod off.

We will survive.
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Re: Deal or no Deal ?

Postby Invicta » Sat Dec 15, 2018 9:42 pm

Ernie :D :D :D K
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Re: Deal or no Deal ?

Postby beardedpapa » Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:38 pm

Keith

I enjoyed your posting attributed to Tony Abbott and I found myself agreeing with all that was said. My only problem is that I find it hard to believe it was he who said it. For those who don't know of him he is known in Australia as the Mad Monk, he did study for the priesthood in his younger days. During his 2 year term as PM he made some strange and weird decisions and held some outlandish views, so bad that eventually he was dumped by his own party (who I happen to be a supported of.) One of the last decisions he made was to grant an Australian Knighthood to Prince Phillip ( yes we do have such things as Australian knights and Dames). Nevertheless the points made were, I think, entirely relevant.

I watched this speech on YouTube last night given by a Labour politician, Kate Hoey (hope the spelling is right) I had never heard of her before but I found my self agreeing with her points
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NS45-1CRtdM

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Re: Deal or no Deal ?

Postby Invicta » Sat Dec 15, 2018 11:08 pm

Hoey has been around a long time David.
She was a former Sports Minister in the Blair years.
Love the Mad Monk reference, I neve knew that. KEN
Last edited by Invicta on Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Deal or no Deal ?

Postby lily8 » Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:56 am

No surprise to me re Abbott but he is very matey with BoJo (or should that be BoZo?) and who knows what's being cooked up. Tony Abbott is a very toxic person politics here in Australia would be better off without him IMO.
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Re: Deal or no Deal ?

Postby Invicta » Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:42 am

Now Tony Blair has put his oar in saying a second referendum could be needed.
Mrs May has slapped him down saying it was outrageous that a former PM would try to undermine the People’s democratic vote to leave. He always was a Europhile.

Thanks for your clarification re Abbot , Lily & David in Oz.

:D Ken
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Re: Deal or no Deal ?

Postby Bonesy » Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:51 am

Politics is riddled mad monk types. You don't have to look much further than the possible next leader of the conservatives the buffoon that is Boris Johnson.


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Re: Deal or no Deal ?

Postby filsgreen » Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:03 am

I'm totally fed up with it all. The antics over the past two years, demonstrates just how little the politicians think of the electorate and just how little, some of the populace respect democratic referendums.
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Re: Deal or no Deal ?

Postby Ernie Jackson. (Bunty) » Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:01 am

It would be interesting to see what a referendum vote would produce on this site....are we a decent cross section?

As for Boris Johnson :D :D :D :D :D

Jeremy Corbyn :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

What a b****y mess.
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Re: Deal or no Deal ?

Postby Shelagh » Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:59 am

Far too many of those mad monk types, Keith :lol: parliament flooded with them!
Bit of a problem getting rid of :)
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Re: Deal or no Deal ?

Postby Shelagh » Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:26 pm

Not sure about cross section, Ernie, (although I supported remain) would have thought majority of site voted to leave!
Interesting to see if anybody has had a change of heart :!:
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Re: Deal or no Deal ?

Postby Invicta » Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:45 pm

Bonesy wrote:Politics is riddled mad monk types. You don't have to look much further than the possible next leader of the conservatives the buffoon that is Boris Johnson.


Keith


God forbid that ever happens Cus :wink: Ken
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Re: Deal or no Deal ?

Postby Sheelagh Tequila » Sun Dec 16, 2018 1:16 pm

Tony Blair spouting his big mouth off..He should be in prison for his war crimes :twisted:

Sheelagh :evil:
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Re: Deal or no Deal ?

Postby Bonesy » Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:56 pm

Agree Shellagh, and David Cameron should be hauled up for this unholy mess.


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Re: Deal or no Deal ?

Postby Sheelagh Tequila » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:41 pm

Listening to them all again today what is it they don't understand ? the majority voted OUT, no more we could do this.. we could do that...WE HAVE VOTED OUT now get behind our Prime Minister whether we voted for her or not and just get on with it..strewth :roll: . Government ha..they all could do with flying lessons from the end of Keiths foot :x I'm giving you the job Keith you are a big strong fella :wink:


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Re: Deal or no Deal ?

Postby Bonesy » Sun Dec 30, 2018 11:10 am

How the Common Market was born, A Look At Life film.

https://youtu.be/KM2RmqBuSws


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Re: Deal or no Deal ?

Postby filsgreen » Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:50 pm

Valid response from an Australian news reporter.

https://youtu.be/sHdbt4HkPrA
Last edited by filsgreen on Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Deal or no Deal ?

Postby Bonesy » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:40 pm

Phil that is so good, do you think that lady would come and run our country :D


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Re: Deal or no Deal ?

Postby Walsh » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:02 pm

BREXIT: out of the mouth of Mayhem; nothing sticks like it.
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Re: Deal or no Deal ?

Postby Invicta » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:31 pm

Bonesy wrote:Phil that is so good, do you think that lady would come and run our country :D


Keith


She certainly qualifies, her reading of the autocue was painful and her monotone delivery makes her perfect.
She would fit right in with boring politicians :wink: K
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Re: Deal or no Deal ?

Postby Invicta » Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:57 pm

So it's no deal and the chaos continues.
Will she resign?
Will we have a General Election?
Will we have another Referendum?
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Re: Deal or no Deal ?

Postby fatboyjoe90 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:13 pm

It's clear as mud to me!! :roll:
Cheers Joe.
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