Bootle Schools

[smhel6]

hi guys,just been reading about schools and dicipline,well i was schooled by nuns and had the cane and was totally afraid of our teachers but we all turned out okay,and like someone said we never went out and murdered other kids and we had respect for our parents,elders and teachers so i say bring back the cane or give the scallies 5 years in the army ,that should sort them.xx

[Joycen60]

I went to B.G.S.The best teacher was Miss Smalley who never raised her voice she had a demeanour which demanded respect, I do think as other writers have said the difficult pupils are not taught discipline or respect at home if my boys were disciplined in school they knew to expect similar at home not their father going up to sort the teacher out.I agree some punishments especially at the boys school were over the top, at bedford road we were wrapped over the knuckles by Miss Fleetwood which was very painful but as bad as I can remember.I only realised recently how poor B.G.S.was with very low academic attainment we couldn't have all been thick could we?

Hi Olga I remember Miss Smalley well she always took us on a long walk on the famous Day Trips! When were you at BGS? I was there 61-68. Fully agree with you academic attainment was very low for us supposingly Grammar Girls! I was in the A stream but only a few of us passed all our GCEs.

[Joycen60]

hi guys,just been reading about schools and dicipline,well i was schooled by nuns and had the cane and was totally afraid of our teachers but we all turned out okay,and like someone said we never went out and murdered other kids and we had respect for our parents,elders and teachers so i say bring back the cane or give the scallies 5 years in the army ,that should sort them.xx

Sorry but as I have said before I really cant agree with you. How can someone gain respect by using corporal punishment. What an awful environment it must have been to have been taught in being scared of the teachers.It isnt respect it amounts to Bully tactics.

But everyone to their own views. These are just mine.

[bjones]

Hi Joyce and Olga, I totally agree with you about Miss Smalley. Miss Hough was another teacher I had total respect for.
Also agree about academic achievement - the boys school did so much better than ours. My theory has always been that the staff there were far better motivated and that rubbed off on students
As to bullying - Dorothy Pattinson was the worst bully I've ever met and I don't remember her ever using corporal punishment! Bullying teachers will out; cane in hand or not!

[whitey]

I was the first (& only?) girl caned by Mr.Hartly at Gray Street Junr.school
for fighting with Pat Willetts,She started it but I was bigger than her so I got the cane!
Any Gray St. kids ? out there.

I was at Gray Street from 66-69. Mr Hartley was teaching there then, he was in charge of the 10-11 year olds in the lower class. I was in Mrs Taylor's class in the top form. Mr Hartley was a tall grey haired man with a very loud voice. He had most of the scallies in his class so was often belting them and shouting, mind you Mrs Taylor would slap your legs really hard when she felt the need to (no long pants in them days to cushion the blow) I went on to Bootle Grammar from there and hated it.
Stephen White.

[JULIA ARROWSMITH]

Hi Mersey girl I was caned for sliding on the ice in gray street school the year was i think 1959 Mr williams was the Head Master
As far as todays children are concerned I still believe if you give respect you get respect back. I really hate to hear an ADULT scream at a child it makes the hair at the back of my kneck stand up, so how must the child feel .

[Marie777]

School days in the 21st century.

http://thejamkingshow.com/worldnews/wor ... acher-nun/

Marie (the other one)

[tony00165]

People have mentioned here about peverted and cruel teachers...as children some things don't make sense but as you get older it dawns on you....we had a teacher in Bootle Grammar who used to call the same boy out time after time...bend him over his knee and squeeze his bottom pretending to check if he had a magazine down his trousers..he would then give him a token gentle smack with a ruler and tell him to go and sit back down..years later I met former classmates who by this time were in the merchant navy and we talked about this peverted religious maniac. He got away with it because he did it in front of innocent children who didn't understand....I'm certain other teachers must have known about his 'Little weakness' but NOTHING was ever done

[PETER CRAIG]

.

[matt wethered]

Hi Tony,everyone that went to the Grammar knows who that religious pervert was, PIGGY Porter. Damn him to hell.When it was found out that I was Jewish he made me stand in front of the class close to his desk and apologise for my faiths part in the crucifixion while trying to stroke my leg,I hope the bas***d is burning slowly and in pain.
Matt

[jean eaton]

Welcome to the forum Tony.

Jean

[tony00165]

My brother mentioned this site ...I'm glad he did.....thanks for the welcome.......shame to be talking about cruel or peverted teachers on here but I imagined it was only me....or a small number of others, who had witnessed this. I went to St James's infants and when I was about six years old (maybe 5) I came back after dinner to find the classroom door locked....at that age you don't know things do you and I lifted myself up by gripping the small ledge which ran under the windows in the corridor whick looked into the classrooms...(get this)....I saw our schoolteacher about 19 years old squatting over a 2lb jamjar having a pee....another teacher much older dressed in a grey costume and heavy black shoes with short black hair and thick horn rimmed glasses (You get the picture) was standing in front of her...watching...I went back into the playground to join the other kids and told my mother what I'd seen when I got home at 4'oclock.....my mam got the neighbours in and got me to repeat it and all the women were absolutely screeching with laughter especially when I said innocently 'Maybe it was too far for Miss ******** to get to the toilet'.....It's all a long time ago but I can remember things like a film running through my head...especially the neighbours howling with laughter

[tony00165]

My name is Tony sanders......I went to Bootle grammar school from 1953 to 1958. Dave may lived in orrel lane and I lived in grainger Avenue......Dave was a terrific artist and later went to the art school and was in the same class as john lennon....If anyone has read the Beatle Anthology there is a picture in it of a hofner bass guitar the belonged to Stu Sutcliffe.....Dave taught him to play three eddie cochrane tunes on the bass and in return Stu let dave take it home to Orrell lane...measure up and make his own bass (Which he did) Lennon had asked Dave to join the Beatles before Stu took the plunge.....I was the drummer with Billy J kramer and later on was with Dave May and Mally Aston playing in the same group in the Star club in Hamburg (1965)....me Mally and Dave had all been in the same 'X' stream in the grammar for five years (What a fluke)......it's amazing the musical connections between Bootle and the 'Big Bang ' in '63.....I don't want to bore anyone with this....but I was there......Anyone remember Frank Gleason the sports master....he'd volunteered from the Army Commando to join the fledgling parachute regiment and was trained at Ringway...he used to show us his commando knife and souvenirs of german artifacts he taken on missions......he was in the army pentathlon team at the olympic games after the war and could walk up the school staircase ..along the corridor and into the classroom on his hands all the way....what a character.

[matt wethered]

Hi Tony,I was in the Alpha group the same years you were at the grammar and if it's the same guy I was in the same class as Mally( Malcom) Aston.We all used to go to Ash Street youth club and did'nt Billy play for the footy team?The last time I saw Malcom was just after my dad passed away just before Christmas 1963 and I was flown home from Singapore and we where at a New years eve party at Larry Dreaves's house and Mally drove me up to Downing Road in his Sunbeam Alpine to bring Tom Kerrs sister to the party.Lots of fun,three people in an Alpine driving out to Netherton.I believe Mally and I were two people that managed to get tickets to see Buddy Holly when we was in Liverpool
Still hate the Pigman
Matt

[Patricia]

My brother, in the early stages of his teaching career, taught at Quarry Bank Grammar School and was told that John Lennon had been a pupil there. Out of curiosity, he looked up his school records and told me that one of the teachers had made the following remark on one of John Lennon's school reports, ie: "This boy should go far!" how true that was!!

[jean eaton]

Patricia,I guess that teacher knew a thing or two.

We went far too, you 3000. miles, me now 6000. miles.

Patricia, changed my avatar, now it's me getting dizzy

[Patricia]

I hear you, Jean I believe the teacher, however, was referring to John Lenon's future career in life!!

I myself, rather like your new avatar - got a good beat to it

[beardedpapa]

This thread seems to have jumped about a bit over the last few years but I'd just like to put in my bit for the original topic.

I went to a RC school (St Elizabeths) in the early 50's and received my fair share of caning. I say fair share because I think I deserved a lot of it.

I failed the 11+ for many reasons, one I was never told the exam was coming, and as it turned out I was better at the technical rather than academic life.

One teacher whose name I can't recall must have seen this and put me in to sit for a Technical College exam. This I passed and went on to Bootle Tech. To me this was a turning point in my life and I tend to focus on this positive rather than the canings I got.

I don't believe the canings did me any harm but I would not like to see them returned, however there must be someway that teachers can regain tghe discipline they need

Beardedpapa

[tony00165]

Hi Tony,I was in the Alpha group the same years you were at the grammar and if it's the same guy I was in the same class as Mally( Malcom) Aston.We all used to go to Ash Street youth club and did'nt Billy play for the footy team?The last time I saw Malcom was just after my dad passed away just before Christmas 1963 and I was flown home from Singapore and we where at a New years eve party at Larry Dreaves's house and Mally drove me up to Downing Road in his Sunbeam Alpine to bring Tom Kerrs sister to the party.Lots of fun,three people in an Alpine driving out to Netherton.I believe Mally and I were two people that managed to get tickets to see Buddy Holly when we was in Liverpool
Still hate the Pigman
Matt

..........Hi Matt.....great to be in touch with you....You must have been clever to be in the Alpha strain....I couldn't imagine having to learn latin...it was enough for me to do French and I was a bit scared of Ben Owen....he used to poke you in the ribs with his thumb.....As said I was with mally Aston and dave May in Hamburg, Bremen and Bielerfeld in January 1965 playing the Star clubs.....mally lived in Oxford road right on the corner where it joined the top of fernhill road.....It was Mally that piggy Porter used to focus on.....I was told that when our school was bombed in 1941 the boys had to be accomodated in the girls grammar on breeze hill....Piggy was investigated over an alleged incident but no charges were made so he did have a long career molesting children....I'm not sure what can or cannot be said here......you will remember 'Dickie' vernon.....he was cast in a similar mode.....just imagine what would happen today to people like that.....I can't remember if Bill played for the football team you mentioned....I was more a friend of his brother Ronnie until we formed the rock'n roll group....along with Ray Dougherty who was in the 'A' stream in the grammar and lived at the back of us.....Matt......I went to America for the first time in my life and arrived the night befor 9/11......a week later me, our Bob and billy were walking down broadway talking about people from Bootle....neigbours....friends.....characters....Billy lives in Long island and has done for years.....It seemed surreal to be in manhattan and talking about people who lived up our entry.

[Patricia]

B/Papa - I saw this on the outside Bulletin Board of a School:

"Remember - teaching begins at HOME"

I believe that says it all.

[matt wethered]

Hi Tony,lot of good latin did me as an engineering mechanic 1st class(classy name for a stoker) in the submarine service but I did make acting leading stoker after nine years,see what amo,amas,amamus amatis, amant can do for you.Poor gentle Ben,all those years of poking and that is the sum of my knowledge of Latin.Remember Vernon very well,couldnt stop sniffing another nasty little man,but what about the english lit teacher Murray,at least he gave up and went and took a vow of silence and became a monk.He was the token RC teacher and used to take RC assembly in the mornings after that horrible and religiously bigoted phrase"Roman Catholics fall out"came from Jean D Berbiers mouth
Join in on some other topics Tony and lets get away from that hatefull school
Matt

[Patricia]

Matt - It is so funny how some people "Love" Latin and some "Hate" it - I guess it takes allsorts to make a world!! My brother took Geography and Latin at Oxford and his grandson is now at Oxford studying Latin and Greek called the "Classics" - must be a gene thing

[IanA]

Ah, Latin. I remember chanting declensions in BGS - Bellum came out as something like Blum, Blum, Blum, Blee, Blow, Blow. And who could forget 'Fortibus es in ero'.

When I transferred to Waterloo Grammar after two years at BGS I was interviewed by the headmaster. "I see you took Latin" he said. "Yes" quoth I. "3A" he murmured. "I hated it" I growled. "3B" he sighed. Ho hum.

[Patricia]

IanA:

[Joycen60]

I couldnt stand French was hopeless at it but I quite liked Latin even though I was scared stiff of Miss Pattinson the Latin teacher.

Can remember more French than Latin now though!

[bjones]

![/quote= "bjones"]As to bullying - Dorothy Pattinson was the worst bully I've ever met and I don't remember her ever using corporal punishment! Bullying teachers will out; cane in hand or not!

[quote="Joycen60"]liked Latin even though I was scared stiff of Miss Pattinson the Latin teacher.

Joyce, As Ma Bushell would have said "QED" - cheers Bee

[jean eaton]

I couldnt stand French was hopeless at it but I quite liked Latin even though I was scared stiff of Miss Pattinson the Latin teacher.

Can remember more French than Latin now though!

I liked French, though Mrs Clark was a very strict teacher. I came 2nd in class yearly exams and she told me she checked my work twice as she didn't think I had paid that much attention in class. The old so-an-so.

[grekko]

Bootle Grammar School 1955-1959= Sadistic, Hypocritical, Bigoted punishment master :
HAYES.

[oriel55]

Hi Mersey girl I was caned for sliding on the ice in gray street school the year was i think 1959 Mr williams was the Head Master
As far as todays children are concerned I still believe if you give respect you get respect back. I really hate to hear an ADULT scream at a child it makes the hair at the back of my kneck stand up, so how must the child feel .

I agree with you 100%. Kids just want to learn, join in and be loved while growing up. I think we all underestimate children's capacity to understand and be able to do things.

[OurPhil]

Ah, Latin. I remember chanting declensions in BGS - Bellum came out as something like Blum, Blum, Blum, Blee, Blow, Blow. And who could forget 'Fortibus es in ero'.

When I transferred to Waterloo Grammar after two years at BGS I was interviewed by the headmaster. "I see you took Latin" he said. "Yes" quoth I. "3A" he murmured. "I hated it" I growled. "3B" he sighed. Ho hum.

Brilliant !
'Ubique misericordia prævenit'

[graham]

I have read with interest all the comments re BGS and I think I went to a different school.
I was there from 1949 to 1955 and never came across a lot of the stuff mentioned. I got homework every day and at the weekends, most I did and I got the cane across the ass for the homework i didn't do. This did not turn me into a raving sadist or anything like that.
I find now that there is little or no discipline in school or in the home for a lot of children and they are growing up to show no repect for other people or their property, this is in Canada and i presume it is the same in the UK.
The good thing is that the good guys still out number the bad guys.
Re the teachers, I was never taught by Piggy Porter but had RI from Dickie Vernon. The teachers that taught me were as I remeber English Murray, Physics Kelly Math Smith Spanish Collis (in the Anexxe) French can't remeber the first Guy but later by Reynolds
As I said I never came across a lot of the things mentioned although I did have the cane many times and also had to go to school on Saturday morning for not doing my homework, now that put the fear of God into me having to tell my Mother to get me up early on Saturday she was worse than any teacher I only did the Saturday morning thing once.
I now live just outside of Vancouver BC (Matt will know) I was quite strict with my two sons and they both turned out ok (at least I think so)
So back to the cane

[grekko]

I have read with interest all the comments re BGS and I think I went to a different school.
I was there from 1949 to 1955 and never came across a lot of the stuff mentioned. I got homework every day and at the weekends, most I did and I got the cane across the ass for the homework i didn't do. This did not turn me into a raving sadist or anything like that.
I find now that there is little or no discipline in school or in the home for a lot of children and they are growing up to show no repect for other people or their property, this is in Canada and i presume it is the same in the UK.
The good thing is that the good guys still out number the bad guys.
Re the teachers, I was never taught by Piggy Porter but had RI from Dickie Vernon. The teachers that taught me were as I remeber English Murray, Physics Kelly Math Smith Spanish Collis (in the Anexxe) French can't remeber the first Guy but later by Reynolds
As I said I never came across a lot of the things mentioned although I did have the cane many times and also had to go to school on Saturday morning for not doing my homework, now that put the fear of God into me having to tell my Mother to get me up early on Saturday she was worse than any teacher I only did the Saturday morning thing once.
I now live just outside of Vancouver BC (Matt will know) I was quite strict with my two sons and they both turned out ok (at least I think so)
So back to the cane

Your experience of Saturday morning detention without corporal punishment appears to have been a very effective deterrent. The punishment meted out via the cane didn't have the same effect and yet you still advocate caning. Redolent of sadomasochism .

[Patricia]

I have been reading the comments regarding Bootle Schools and was amazed to read Oriel55's statement that: "Kids just want to learn" My daughter, Janine, is a 9th Grade English teacher at a local High School and some days is so frustrated with the behaviour of some of the "Kids" that she just wants to quit.
No matter how she tries to engage the children ( and believe me she goes to great lengths and also spends her own money on projects that she thinks will interest them) apparently with some of them, it is absolutely hopeless - they are insolent, disobedient and noisy, consequently disrupting the class for the rest of the children.
The other day she had bruises on her arm as a result of trying to separate a fight that was going on in the corridor.
Therefore, I would be enternally grateful if you could disclose the secret formula of being in a position and knowledgeable enough to state that "Kids just want to learn." Thank You.

[graham]

Re cane v Saturday morning detention. They were both deterrents, the difference was that I had to tell my mother re Saturday morning but she never knew I had the cane as I never told her.
You seem to be adfainst the cane at schools do you not agree that the stopping of the cane coincided with the increase of disruptive behaviour of the children, thnakfully not all, I think a lot of school teachers agree.
Knowing that they cannot be caned or even shouted at school carries on with them in later life, hence all the vandalism I read about that is going on in the UK.
This is not a problem that is peculiar to the UK as it happens here in Canada inasmuch as a 15/16 year old, who can cause absolute mayhem time after time and cannot be named because of what we have called "the young offenders act" He like schoolchildren knows he cannot be so carries on being "Naughty"

[JULIA ARROWSMITH]

I must admit I think senior school teachers have it very hard I myself work in a primary school office. One day a few months ago while looking at the school camera I saw a young mum pushing a pram and shouting and swearing at her older daughter who was walking in front of her, The next thing the mum picked a brick up and through it at her older daughter who I think was about 7 I phoned the relevant school to inform them what i had seen. Disipline and respect starts at home and if it doesnt it has to start some where