Hornby Close

Your place to talk about your Bootle memories
lynne99
Posts: 1206
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:55 pm
Location: Rugby

What if it just says Walton Cemetery?
vicMar1
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2014 7:15 pm

You are absolutely correct Bob,as far as my knowledge extends away from the City Farm site.
St Marys was THE original graveyard back in the 14th Century I believe and as the city grew it became neccessary to form a city church. In the mid 1300's St Nicholas was built and took over from St Marys. Around the 18th Century St Nicholas became a seperate parish with its own churchyard and remained in existence until the mid 19th century when 'business' was transferred to St Martin in the Fields. Approximately a decade later saw the opening of Walton cemetery and the Burials Act ?.
It is worth noting that the word Cemetery correctly applies only to a "Public" place of burials and that land within a Churches boundaries is referred to as either a Churchyard or Graveyard.

I have ordered the 'executions' books you suggested Bob and look forward to seeing if I can tie up some loose ends from the cemetery as a result, but cant find a 3rd Volume as yet ! 8)
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BOBHAMO
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Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:20 pm
Location: BIG CITY

The books Vicmar are produced by a former detective merseyside police
who was or is working in walton jail
its a great read ,
i find all are areas not just bootle can bring up a great thread
there are over 250 postings in the mercury
bobhamo
bootle born altcar road
vicMar1
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2014 7:15 pm

I can bring this thread back on topic and effectively bring it to a close. To synopsise, from previous posts it is established that Hornby Close is an estate of 37 houses that were built originally to provide homes for Prison Staff at Walton Prison and also that 'Prisons' in the UK come under the auspices of the Home Office.
Gortaphuill
" The houses were built around 1951 for prison officers and were owned by HMP Service until the late 1980's."

From Philipbell's post I understand that responsibility for permission to legally build on Cemetery land and to administer whatever is needed in relocating remains etc is ALSO the responsibility of the Ministry of Justice, i.e The Home Office ??
"In secular burial grounds the responsibility lay with the old Home Office,now Ministry of Justice,who are supposed to exercise legal jurisdiction over burials". Philipbell
I have uncovered that the incident with which I began this thread regarding building work being carried out,brought about as a consequence of events,a serious cost implication and litigation ensued.
I am not further interested in that side of it but whatever the outcome, it is said that a "D Notice" was imposed on reporting any of it ????
Now, a D notice is a tool to gag the press (sometimes justifiably) from reporting matters that affect National Security,and is usually issued by the Home Secretary,who is the head of the Home Office.???
Why on earth did these events justify the perceived threats inherent to News Organisations upon revealing these finds, maybe they knew that it was scandalous ?
So, there is no need to look for news reports in the local paper, and this is why there are none.
Smoke & Mirrors ! "Skullduggery" ??
Most certainly a misuse of their authority in order to to protect themselves at the very least.
I will leave it to you readers to make up your own mind with regards to this development but as I have pointed out previously, this "newspeak" deception by politicians of all shades and at all levels continues daily.
Take the time to read this site http://www.ourground.net/#local%20plan and keep an eye open for zip ties and empty plastic pouches around your local lamp post, it may be all the warning you will get before its too late.
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BOBHAMO
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Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:20 pm
Location: BIG CITY

Hi Vic mar this has been one of the most interesting posts on the site
and i am glad you started it , are country has a proud freedom to know whats going on,
unless they dont want you to know, its apity that it was the early 50s and i am supposing any workers might not be around
who was on the site ,but great research and i hope you can post another interesting topic
bobhamo
bootle born altcar road
Churchwarden2016
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:41 pm

An update on Hornby Close and remains found in 2010.
Under a compulsory Purchase Conveyance dated 23rd September 1953 between the Rector and Parish Church of Liverpool (as the Vendor) and The Minister of Works (as Purchaser) for the Home Office 14,584 square yards of cemetery land were purchased for the building of housing for Prison Officers from Walton Prison. The purchase price was £ 1,783 14 Shillings. Item 5 of Conveyance states:
"(5) All prescribed requirements with respect to the removal and reinterment of human remains and and the disposal of monuments tombstones or other memorials in or upon the said land have been complied with".
This was obviously not done as in 2013 the Owner of 17 Hornby Close decided to carry out an extension to his house. The owner carried out an extension to his property which included a new garage. During the excavation of the ground for new footings for the extension coffins and human remains were unearthed outside the cemetery wall. Following further excavations a total of 60 coffins and human remains were exhumed, the soil sifted for human remains and all remains re-interred within the grounds of Walton Park Cemetery. Coffins were found in this area at depths from 4 to 10 feet below ground level.
The cemetery wall adjoining the property was demolished due to the wall becoming unstable and dangerous. Subsequently it was found that the wall had minimal footings on top of coffins and as the coffins deteriorated the wall settled.
When grave diggers exhumed the remains in 2003 they estimated that there are still a possible 200 further coffins remaining under 17 Hornby Close so how many more remain under the rest of Hornby Close is unknown.
For those who are interested in Walton Park Cemetery records not all of the records were burnt at St Nicks during the War. There is Register for Paid Ground giving details of burials from 11th February 1938 until the last burial on 1st October 2013. As Churchwarden I have also found the Rough Burial Register which has records of burials from the first burial in Liverpool Parochial Cemetery, Walton, on October 10th 1857 until 1st October 2013.
I have been working with Vic Raffles, a frequent contributor to this Forum, on Walton Parochial Cemetery and more records are becoming available as research into the cemetery continues. If contributors to the Forum have any specific queries ref the cemetery please post and I will try and answer them. Churchwarden2016.
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BOBHAMO
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Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:20 pm
Location: BIG CITY

Welcome Church warden :D :D a fascinating piece of info
dont think i would like to live in no 17
as usual the respect of the poor people who where buried there means nothiing
when the weather gets better will have another look around
a interesting place
thanks for posting
bobhamo
bootle born altcar road
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