jones family

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jones family

Postby ponderosa » Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:10 pm

hello am trying to find any information on the jones family they lived at various addresses johnston ave and st philips ave father patrick mother mary children rose ,laurence who was a priest geraldine who worked in the fire service maryjones who was the headmistress at st winifrides primary merton rd and josephine who could still be living any info would be greatly appreciated as we are getting nowhere with our search thankyou rose is our grandmother and she was shunned by the family for getting pregnant my mum was put into a nazareth home at birth but the one lead we had for rose led nowhere my mum is 87 and would love her to know something of her family as time is running away thankyou again janice
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Re: jones family

Postby Silver-Haired-Hippy » Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:06 pm

So sorry I cant help you in anyway but my heart goes out for your mum and your family, this forum will help you as best as they can, hopefully you will find out what you are looking for.

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Re: jones family

Postby ponderosa » Sun Jul 23, 2017 5:22 pm

thankyou for your lovely message
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Re: jones family

Postby lily8 » Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:11 am

Hello Janice and welcome to the Forum there are some very helpful people on this site. I have looked at the census and 1939 register but unable so far to locate the family. I take it that your mum was either adopted or remained in care? do you have any tangible start point that we can follow up on?? would love to try and help your mum. Kind regards
Lily
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Re: jones family

Postby lily8 » Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:30 am

Hello again 1 step forward I searched the birth registers and found the following children after further searching can confirm the mothers maiden name was Ward.

1906 Mary Jones
1909 Rose Jones
1912 Geraldine Jones
1916 Lawrence Jones
1920 Josephine Jones

I believe the father was known as John Jones perhaps John Patrick but used Patrick???

1911 Census
John Jones 34 years Chief Cook born Liverpool
Mary Jones 31 years housewife born Ireland
Mary Jones 4 years
Rose Jones 1 year

Address 26 Prior Street Bootle.
I think that Geraldine Jones died unwed and intered at Ford Cemetery Grave AH 143 she did leave a will and her estate passed to her sister Mary who also was a spinster and as Lawrence was a priest that only leaves Josephine as a chance for relatives, Will have a further look back later. I have just checked a little further and it would seem that the Ford plot is a family one as John Patrick (he also left his estate to Mary) was also intered there so maybe a phone call or visit to Ford to find who else is in the plot??
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Re: jones family

Postby lily8 » Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:22 am

Hi again I did find a couple of travel things which may lead to something or nothing

Outgoing voyage 13/7/1939 to La Pallice (post of La Rochelle)
Mary Jones aged 60 Housewife
Mary Jones aged 33 Teacher
Josephine winifed Jones aged 19 no occupation

address 33 St Phillips Avenue Litherland (Same as John Patricks on death records)

Incoming voyage 23/7/1939 from Valparaiso and ports en route (unlikely to have been from Chile as time would rule that out so I would go with a French visit)

Exactly same details as above, can only guess at a 10 day stay in France perhaps to visit Rose or Lawrence.
Sadly I believe Josephine Winifred Jones also remained a spinster and likely passed away in Southport in 2009.
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Re: jones family

Postby ponderosa » Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:32 am

hello lily 8 thankyou that can't express my gratitude to you yes rose was kickied out of the home and mum was placed in nazareth house my brother was initially searching and holds dates and details you have the right family he did take my mum to liverpool a few years back but with a limited stay they only went to the city library and found a paper cutting on geraldine who had been an assistant fire officer and died of cancer it stated about the other siblings that laurence was a priest and that he was out in africa missionary work ? mary was the head at st winifrides i contacted the city fire service thinking we might get a group photo but no luck also contacted st winifrides to be told it was now the hawthorns and everything had been archived he also found that john jones had some eating place in liverpool cafe? he also went to ford cemetary and its immense found nothing the trip you mention he also discovered he felt that they might have gone to lourdes?but the news on josephine is amazing we knew they moved from st philips avenue but obviously with nothing on mary am i right in thinking they moved there together thankyou again for what you have found out so quickly has taken us years
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Re: jones family

Postby Thommos sister » Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:03 am

HI Lily, what a bonzer job you have done here mate. I have only just read this post. Thank you my dear friend for making our poster so happy!! Bravo T.S :D
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Re: jones family

Postby lily8 » Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:18 am

Hi Janice as I live in Australia I will get on to it again tomorrow and see if I can find any more information on Rose it was a rotten thing to happen to her, when her family no matter how religious, could have cared for her and the babe it breaks my heart stories like your mums. I had a thought that Rose may have entered a convent in France but the Lourdes idea fits just as well. John Patrick is listed on the 1911 census as a Chief cook on board a ship but I searched maritime records in hope of a photo but no luck sorry. I could try and see is there were any cousins perhaps that may help? anyway talk tomorrow and it is a pleasure to try and help.


OFF THREAD thanks Teens :D
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Re: jones family

Postby ponderosa » Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:59 am

hi again lily8 will leave you with something else my brother found out nazareth house in hammersmith sent him information it seems rose went to london when the baby went they said she had agreed whether by letter or a contract with them to pay so much weekly towards the keeping of my mum this didn't happen but they had an address sorry no number but it was waterloo road which was somewhere near waterloo station he checked census no record of her and thats where he gave up feeling we had no hope of ever finding what happened to her we even tried the other way finding the birthplace of mary wards and john patrick jones parents no luck as you see we're not very good at this regards janice
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Re: jones family

Postby BOBHAMO » Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:03 pm

Great finds Lily :D :D :D :D
Mary Jones the teacher was still living at St philiips in 1968
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st winnys
welcome Janice :D :D :D
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Re: jones family

Postby ponderosa » Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:37 pm

thankyou what an amazing group of people you all are thankyou for your post did you know mary personally good or bad memories are all welcome best wishes janice
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Re: jones family

Postby ponderosa » Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:50 pm

another message to lily8 managed to get through to somebody who could tell me who was buried in ford plot lawrence 1946 john patrick 1957 mary 1957 and geraldine 1964 so their is no mary or josephine when you found josephine had died in southport was their an address best wishes janice
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Re: jones family

Postby henry » Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:02 pm

BOBHAMO wrote:Great finds Lily :D :D :D :D
Mary Jones the teacher was still living at St philiips in 1968
Image
st winnys
welcome Janice :D :D :D
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That school was the boys school and the st.winefrides girl school was on Pembroke road
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Re: jones family

Postby BOBHAMO » Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:41 pm

Janice thats the last street dir i have 1968
as Henry has posted one for girls and one for boys
i worked on both schools from 1963 t0 the early 70s
and might have bumped in to the head mistress :D :D
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Re: jones family

Postby Marie777 » Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:04 pm

My eldest daughter went to St Winifred's and Miss Jones was the head at the time. 1968.

I had given birth to my fourth baby and I was just making my first trip down to Stanley Road and along to Trinity
Not much fun when you have two others swinging from the handle of the pram and a new one inside. This was the routine four times a day. Nine in the morning and back at 12.00 Back at 1.30 and finally 4.00 home. Eight times doing the return run.
The headmistress Miss Jones a very nice lady asked me to pop into the office for a quite word.it turned out that as I had four the eldest was entitled to free dinners. Something I had never considered as I was thinking the day would seem too long for a new school girl.however this news was greeted by woops and hollers so it was agreed that the following week Carolyn would stay to dinner. This lasted for almost a week but by Friday Miss Jones once again sent for me,As the dinner was being brought into the dining room Carolyn was balking and looking very uncomfortable.That was the end of dinners but the reason for the story is to relate to the family what a kind and observant teacher Miss Jones was not only did she think of taking the pressure off me but watched to see Carolyn's reaction. We moved shortly after this, but I often think about, the attentive lady who was in charge of some very lucky children THAT WAS Miss Jones.
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Re: jones family

Postby lily8 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:28 am

Hello again Janice it,s lovely to see the responses to you can I just ask does your mum have a birth cert and if so what is the address of her birth place????
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Re: jones family

Postby lily8 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:17 am

Hi the 1939 register has the following addresses and occupations there is no John Patrick listed he may have been away.

33 St Phillips Ave Litherland

Mary Senior housewife
Mary Junior teacher
Geraldine hairdresser
one other presumed to be Josephine

Catholic Burial records for Ford show that John Patrick, Mary Snr and Geraldine show St Phillips address no record could be found for Lawrence you may have to see if someone could have a look for any headstone which may give details.

Josephine Winifred death details are from the BMd,s records and no further information other than it was recorded at Southport not 100% sure it is her but looks likely a copy of it will cost about ten pounds.

I will wait now and see if you have the birth cert
Lily
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Re: jones family

Postby lily8 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:46 am

Just a little more I found some records for John Patrick which show he was in the Mercantile Marine with an address of 26 Prior Street Bootle but it is odd that I can,t locate him seamans records at the National Archives and sometimes if we are lucky a photograph.

I thought it odd that Lawrence Jones was in the family plot in 1946 and re read what you posted about Geraldine and the newspaper so I looked further. Lawrence Jones born 1880 died 1946 at 241 Westminster Road Liverpool (at this time I think it was called the Kirkdale Homes, Lawrence was interred at Ford plot number AH143 same as the others so I would guess this Lawrence was a brother to John Patrick.


This is likely the baptism of John Patrick.
Joannes Patricius Jones (John Patrick)
Birth Date:
2 Mar 1877
Baptism Date:
5 Mar 1877
Parish:
St Alban's Church, Lancashire, England
Father's name:
Laurenti Jones (Lawrence)
Mother's name:
Mariae Finnigan (Mary)

I think the following birth record confirms that John Patrick and Lawrence were brothers

 
JONES, LAWRENCE    
FINNAGAN  (mothers maiden name)

GRO Reference: 1879  D Quarter in WEST DERBY AND TOXTETH PARK  Volume 08B  

Lawrence Jones the father of John Patrick and Lawrence appears to have died circa 1890 and interred at Ford in a public grave found the family on the 1891 census (and in 1901 now residing in Lily road Litherland Lawrence is listed as a ships cook)


1891::::: as you can see quite a few siblings
Lawrence Jones
Age:
12
Estimated birth year:
abt 1879
Relation:
Son
Mother's name:
Mary Jones
Gender:
Male
Where born:
Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Household Members:
Name
Age
Mary Jones-----widow
34
John Jones----- Errand boy
14
Lawrence Jones---- Scholar
12
Peter Jones
9
Elizabeth Jones
7
Annie Jones
5
Mary Jones
2
William Jones
5/12
Address Pleasant View Bootle
Lily
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Re: jones family

Postby ponderosa » Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:03 am

firstly thankyou to marie777 for taking the time to post your memories of mary glad she was a kind person and caring of her pupils . hello lily8 will ring mum later to double check but am pretty sure she was born at walton hospital not sure if we have a birth certificate for josephine but if not will certainly apply for one so sorry but forgot to say on last post my brother was pretty sure that it was john patricks brother in plot but am seeing mum thursday so will go through the certificates my brother sent off for when he was searching but i don't think he had all the siblings you have shown thankyou once again for the time you have given to us and the searching you have done for my mum she is overwhelmed by your caring best wishes janice
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Re: jones family

Postby lily8 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:20 am

Janice please let your mum know that I am pleased to help to try and find any relatives who may be around, the reason I suggested the death cert for Josephine is that it may perhaps list a relative as informant. The birth cert of your mum may provide an address at that time for Rose and any little bit may help. Given that we only have the 1911 census and the 1939 register to rely on plus BMD.s we have to glean whatever we can. Would you like me to follow up on Roses aunts and uncles that is marriages and their children??? Best regards
Lily
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Re: jones family

Postby ponderosa » Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:33 am

lily8 have relayed that to mum mum was born 107 rice lane rose jones was a tailors clerk 119 shaw street liverpool and living at 29 johnston avenue bootle this was the family home before st philips avenue will apply today for death certificate for josephine and yes that would be great what you have suggested regards janice
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Re: jones family

Postby BOBHAMO » Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:24 am

Janice 107 rice lane was the workhouse
Image
1908
then walton hospital
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Re: jones family

Postby filsgreen » Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:36 am

Bob, you are a true font of pictorial knowledge. Thank you for sharing your photo's and local knowledge. Lily, and all the genies, thank you for all the hard work you do, its very much appreciated.
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Re: jones family

Postby lily8 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:44 am

Nice photo Bob, Janice yes 107 Rice lane was Walton workhouse lateer Walton hospital in fact my own birth cert states 107 rice lane!! so it looks as if Rose was living at home until the birth of your mum?? 119 Shaw street is in Everton a restored Georgian house grade 2 listed Bob, have you any directories that would cover it around 1929 / 1930??? I would think that would perhaps have been the tailors business premises but by no means sure. I am at a loss to understand why your mum ended up in Nazareth House in Hammersmith London as there were numerous such places in Liverpool including a Nazareth house perhaps Rose took her there???
Off to bed shortly but will check tomorrow. Cheers
Lily
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Re: jones family

Postby ponderosa » Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:03 pm

thankyou bobhamo for the post can only imagine the horrors when it was a workhouse to lily8 checked with my brother yes she was in nazareth house hammersmith from 1931 as i posted yesterday rose went with her we know she was living at waterloo road my brother searched the census no record of her i don't envy your search for her as she seemed to disappear also i have applied for josephines death certificate so hopefully that might help regards janice
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Re: jones family

Postby ponderosa » Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:20 pm

hello lily8 a bit more information from my brother when mum wen to hammersmith he said the information the sisters wrote to him was on the 21st june 1930 rose was living at 33 lambeth rd london se and also 286 waterloo rd london regards janice
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Re: jones family

Postby lily8 » Thu Jul 27, 2017 4:09 am

Hi Janice sorry I have been caught up with some things and had to do the shopping today 100k round trip to Cairns. However I spent some time trying those addresses in London but with no real outcome both addresses are within walking distance of each other and one may have been part of the Lambeth workhouse, I have to say that finding any record of Rose and I have looked at 100's looks very slim indeed. Both addresses today are very much altered from 1930's. Having said that I will now concentrate on Roses aunts and uncles in the hope of finding a living relative it may take until the weekend to work it through so please bear with me. Best regards

PS: what could be worse than searching for the Joneses in the UK :shock: :shock:
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Re: jones family

Postby bjones » Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:46 am

by lily8 » Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:09 am
PS: what could be worse than searching for the Joneses in the UK :shock: :shock:


Try searching for Joneses who marry Joneses in Wales? :? :lol:
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Re: jones family

Postby lily8 » Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:02 am

Beej :lol: :lol: :lol: actually Wales and Joneses is about the same as England BTW did you know the most common name in Scotland is actually Smith :shock: :shock: :shock:
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Re: jones family

Postby ponderosa » Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:14 am

hello lily8 thankyou for your replies no tesco express 5 mins from your home then and yes i agree jones must be one of the worst names to research just letting yoy know had death certificate back on josephine yes it is her but as i felt in the pit of my stomach she died in a nursing home has been confirmed name of informant is more than likely the matron of the home but have emailed them anyway incase there is still someone there who knew her but so grateful for your help regards janice
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Re: jones family

Postby lily8 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:56 am

Hi Janice I am so sorry that we got no further evidence from the death record and I knew it was a long shot but you never know when doing family history. I am slowly but surely tracking the generations it is a bit of a process but I hope to have something concrete soon.
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Re: jones family

Postby ponderosa » Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:42 am

hello lily8 thats great news the time you have given up to help our family out is so greatly appreciated many regards janice
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Re: jones family

Postby lily8 » Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:07 am

Hi Janice just to let you know I have not forgotten you things been a bit hectic here should have info for you by end of week.
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Re: jones family

Postby ponderosa » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:24 am

hello lily just seen your post thankyou again for your help regards janice
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