Streets or Avenues

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Re: Streets or Avenues

Postby welshlady » Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:19 pm

Thanks Jan

There marriage took place 7th January 1892...between Annie Moody age 19 - her father was George Moody a bricklayer - address Hector street Bootle.....and John Henry Smith age 22 a Labourer - his father John Smith also a Labourer - address Doncaster street..Bootle...

Thank you for your help Jan

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Re: Streets or Avenues

Postby Jan » Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:32 pm

Thanks Welshlady,

Neither of them streets were in Bootle.

Hector Street was in Kirkdale just outside Bootle and I think Doncaster Street was further on in the Scotland Road (Vauxhall area).

I have had a look at Doncaster Street in 1891 census, but no John h Smith with a father also John.

Who were the witnesses to the marriage? Sometimes witnesses can be a big clue.

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Re: Streets or Avenues

Postby welshlady » Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:42 pm

They are hard to make out but think it's Ellen Spier's & Glias Williams.. On the Certificate but when I found the details on family search it had a Thomas Langshaw & Margaret Elizabeth Parker down.??

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Re: Streets or Avenues

Postby welshlady » Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:45 pm

Maybe John Henry Smith was just staying at Doncaster St ??

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Re: Streets or Avenues

Postby Jan » Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:03 pm

Welshlady,

They were the other couple that married the same day as John and Annie.


Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1892
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
LANGSHAW Thomas PARKER Margaret E Liverpool, St. Peter Liverpool 2122LP/86/66


Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1892
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
MOODY Annie SMITH John H Liverpool, St. Peter Liverpool 2122LP/86/65

If you look at the ref numbers they are only one number out.

I will have a look and see if I can find the witnesses.

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Re: Streets or Avenues

Postby welshlady » Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:45 pm

You can tell how experienced you are Jan with these things...I am a novice thank you.

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Re: Streets or Avenues

Postby Jan » Sun Sep 13, 2015 8:12 pm

Hi Welshlady,

I have had a look through the 1901 census for Annie and John Smith, I thought I had found them with a daughter Eleanor age 7 in 1901. The age for Annie would have been right, born 1873, but I had to rule that family out because her brother was living with them George McCulloch, so that put that to bed.

I was wondering if Annie may have died and that is why her daughter was living with her grandparents. I found this death reg, but there is no way of knowing if she was your Annie.

Name: Annie Smith
Estimated birth year: abt 1873
Registration Year: 1895
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at Death: 22
Registration district: West Derby
Parishes for this Registration District:
Inferred County:
Volume: 8b
Page: 437

I can't find any sign of John Henry anywhere.

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Re: Streets or Avenues

Postby welshlady » Mon Sep 14, 2015 8:38 am

Thank you so much Jan.

I know thats the problem don't know what has happened to them..think I will send for death cert of that Annie Smith age 22 .. just to rule out if it is her?? But I know for sure John Henry was alive in 1917 when there daughter got married of it would have shown deceased after his name..[timber traveler] ..
I am coming to Liverpool on the 14th November I will go to ST Georges Hall & see what I can find out about them..

Thank you once again.
Welshlady..
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Re: Streets or Avenues

Postby welshlady » Mon Sep 14, 2015 10:38 am

Hello Jan
Have sent off for the death cert now should get it by the weekend.. your help much appreciated.

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Re: Streets or Avenues

Postby Jan » Mon Sep 14, 2015 2:14 pm

Hi Welshlady,

It isn't a certainty that John Henry was still living in 1917, not everyone stated on their marriage cert if their father was deceased or not, I know some of my ancestors didn't state deceased on theirs, although I knew that their father was deceased by the time of their marriage.

St Georges Hall doesn't hold any public records there, you would be better going around the corner to the Records office in the Library in William Brown Street, it is on the third floor there, they have directories, burial, church records, mainly on microfilm, you don't have to book to have a look at them, the library staff are very helpful and I am sure they will help you out.

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Re: Streets or Avenues

Postby bluephil54 » Tue Sep 15, 2015 1:54 pm

welshlady wrote:Many thanks for the photos ..I had gone on Google Maps but couldn't see the numberes of the houses.. plus sometimes they are not always the numbers that come up on the Google Map site...my Great Aunt's husband was Nathan Rankin... passed away in 1918...he was a boatswain on ships [ bosun].. have got him in 1911 census living wIth Edith wife..... his mother in law Mary Moody [ head of household].....brother in law Charles Moody .... also my grandmother Edith Smith ... at 48 Thornton road Bootle.... just wondered how he died because he died in West Derby???


Many Thanks..

Hi Welshlady,
I haven't been on the site much lately as my Family History Research has hit "the preverbial brick wall" !!! But was just glancing through some of the topics & began reading through your thread and saw Thornton road mentioned..........my Mums Family lived in 55 Thornton Road and in fact my cousin actually bought the house many years ago and she still lives there. The Family name is Musker,believed to be possibly the oldest family in Liverpool. The Musker Family originated in Liverpool but then slowly but surely moved from the inner city tenements to an area around Scotland Road and then eventually some members found their way to Bootle. Indeed two of my Musker relatives were responsible for bringing The Charter for Bootle's Independence from Lime Street Station to Bootle after it was Granted. A lot of Muskers lived in the affluent (at that time) houses in Merton Road in the 1800's,and the oldest house in Bootle which still stands near Christ Church,was the home of a Musker at that time It was originally a Hunting Lodge belonging to Lord Derby.....hard to believe that those Musker relatives used to Farm the land around there. Anyway,hope you are successful in your Family Research.....Take Care & Be Good
Best Wishes
Born St.Christophers Ave,Ford,then St Aidans Way Netherton/Netherton Moss Primary/Bootle Grammar School 1965
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Re: Streets or Avenues

Postby welshlady » Tue Sep 15, 2015 2:27 pm

Hello Bluephil54

Many thanks for that interesting info ... I have no idea when my family moved from Thornton Rd to Rydal St but know they where there in 1937..as it was my mothers address where she got married from in 1937 ... hope you find more out about your family soon.. its frustrating when you hit a brick wall!!.
Good Luck
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Re: Streets or Avenues

Postby welshlady » Tue Sep 15, 2015 2:32 pm

Jan wrote:Hi Welshlady,

It isn't a certainty that John Henry was still living in 1917, not everyone stated on their marriage cert if their father was deceased or not, I know some of my ancestors didn't state deceased on theirs, although I knew that their father was deceased by the time of their marriage.

St Georges Hall doesn't hold any public records there, you would be better going around the corner to the Records office in the Library in William Brown Street, it is on the third floor there, they have directories, burial, church records, mainly on microfilm, you don't have to book to have a look at them, the library staff are very helpful and I am sure they will help you out.

Jan



Hi Jan
Yes I understand what you are saying plus she was only 19 when she got married..& maybe was only saying he was alive to fool the register into thinking she had his consent!!?? , thanks for the info about the records office...

Best wishes
Welshlady.

PS Am a bit of romancer me making things out to be how I would like them to be!! lol.
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Re: Streets or Avenues

Postby welshlady » Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:06 pm

I have found in the 1871 census that my 3 times great grandmother [Mary Ann Whittle] lived with her daughter & family [Alice Kent]

at 6 Ashcroft St......in the Parish of Walton.....Municipal Borough of Bootle Cum Linacre......Ward Knowsley...does that mean she lived in Walton

and not Bootle....

Sorry was also wondering how far Walton is from Bootle..


Many Thanks
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Re: Streets or Avenues

Postby BOBHAMO » Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:43 pm

Hi Welsh lady walton is jioned to bootle just up the road
see the family moved to linconshire in 1881 where george was born
ashcroft street was just off merton road
bobhamo
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Re: Streets or Avenues

Postby welshlady » Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:06 pm

BOBHAMO wrote:Hi Welsh lady walton is jioned to bootle just up the road
see the family moved to linconshire in 1881 where george was born
ashcroft street was just off merton road
bobhamo




Thank you BOBHAMO yes I saw that she moved to Lincolnshire ,Mary Ann Whittle had passed away in 1876..& as Alice was Mary Moody's sister.. Maybe Alice's husband was George Moodys mate as they came from same place & both bricklayer's ( me & my story making again) & both met Liverpool girls while working there together!

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Re: Streets or Avenues

Postby welshlady » Fri Sep 18, 2015 9:46 am

Jan wrote:Hi Welshlady,

I have had a look through the 1901 census for Annie and John Smith, I thought I had found them with a daughter Eleanor age 7 in 1901. The age for Annie would have been right, born 1873, but I had to rule that family out because her brother was living with them George McCulloch, so that put that to bed.

I was wondering if Annie may have died and that is why her daughter was living with her grandparents. I found this death reg, but there is no way of knowing if she was your Annie.

Name: Annie Smith
Estimated birth year: abt 1873
Registration Year: 1895
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at Death: 22
Registration district: West Derby
Parishes for this Registration District:
Inferred County:
Volume: 8b
Page: 437

I can't find any sign of John Henry anywhere.

Jan


Hi Jan
It's not our Annie unfortunately.. cert arrived today.. never mind will keep searching..

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Re: Streets or Avenues

Postby welshlady » Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:32 pm

Hello again.... Could anyone tell me is Vauxhall anywhere close to Bootle...many thanks..
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Re: Streets or Avenues

Postby john j connell » Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:06 pm

Vauxhall is about 1 and a half miles away from the Bootle boundary, heading south towards the city. JJC.
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Re: Streets or Avenues

Postby welshlady » Tue Oct 27, 2015 2:05 pm

john j connell wrote:Vauxhall is about 1 and a half miles away from the Bootle boundary, heading south towards the city. JJC.



Many thanks JJC..
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Re: Streets or Avenues

Postby welshlady » Mon Feb 15, 2016 4:38 pm

welshlady wrote:Hi again
Having awful trouble tracing my great/geandparents John Henry Smith & Annie Smith have got then as far as my grandmother's baptism Mary Edith in December 1993 & address as Oregon St...on there marriage certificate in 1892 he lived at Doncaster St & Annie was living at Hector St with her Mum & Dad George & Mary Moody - Then in the 1901 Edith was 7 & living with her G/mother Mary Moody no mention of her Mum & dad & then in1911she is still with Mary Moody at 17... .in 1917 on Mary Edith's marriage certificate it says her father John Henry Smith is a Timber Traveler (so he is still alive) don't know what a Timber Traveler would be ( or would it be in another country where timber was a big thing). .hope someone could enlighten me..

Best Wishes
Welshlady..




Some good news I have found my great grandfather (above).....Hope you are all ok and in good health....I found him with the help of the Liverpool records office he was alive in 1901 a widow living with his mother,brother,sister & cousin......at 55 St Johns Road Bootle cum Linacre, West Derby....so that why my grandmother was brought up by her gran.....just got to find out what happened to Annie now and when she died....I have been looking on the site every now and then because there are so many interesting stories on here enjoy reading them..... Welshlady... :D
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Re: Streets or Avenues

Postby Jan » Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:11 pm

Hi Welshlady,

Welcome back.

I am glad you found your grandad in 1901, that was a good find.

I have been looking through the death indexes again, there are a couple of Mary Ann Smith's listed born about 1872/3 and died before 1901, It is difficult, as you know.

I found this one, but just Ann Smith

Name: Ann Smith
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1873
Registration Year: 1898
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at Death: 25
Registration district: West Derby
Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 368

The other two both Mary Ann Smith died in 1899, one is in Ford Cemetery.

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Re: Streets or Avenues

Postby Jan » Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:55 pm

Hi Welshlady,

There is a baptism on ancestry for Ann Moody (St Mary's Bootle) Father George, mother Mary, George's occupation Brick Setter. The baptism took place on 18th October 1872. The address was 13 Tudno Street Bootle.

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Re: Streets or Avenues

Postby welshlady » Tue Feb 16, 2016 5:22 pm

Hi Jan
Many thanks for that...she could have been called Mary Ann....her daughter was called Mary Edith..so could have had the mary after mother..???
Am looking through them now & wondering shout I order a couple of death certificates?? It's the only way I can get to know if there are or not.
Welshlady ...
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Re: Streets or Avenues

Postby Jan » Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:08 pm

Hi Welsh Lady,

If you go back to 1871 census, 13 Tudno Street, that is where George and Mary Moody were living. The baptism I found for Ann Moody gives the address in 1872 as 13 Tudno Street.

I would bet that Ann was just Ann and not Mary Ann.

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Re: Streets or Avenues

Postby welshlady » Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:42 pm

Thanks Jan will do....
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Re: Streets or Avenues

Postby welshlady » Fri Nov 24, 2017 3:59 pm

Hi it's been a long time since I have been on this site....I was diagnosed with breast cancer in march 2016... have had an mastectomy...chemotherapy and other treatment and am here to tell the tale ( with a head of hair once again)

I found my great great grandmother Ann Smith... :D at last she was living in Chelsea Road Litherland in 1889 when she passed away aged 25...which I think one of you ladies did find a Ann Smith....her death was reported by her brother?? Of the same address ( maybe her husband was away)...I was lucky enough to be taken to Liverpool on the 8th November for two days to go to a couple of the address of my family that are still standing...Chelsea Road & Thornton Road Bootle....we went with a lovely black cab driver who gave us some history as well bless him...I also went to the Library by St George's....but was told I really need to go to the Crosby one ...so next year that's where I will be going...I have had quite a few family death certificates now because they give addresses where people lived ...

I no I have said this before...but I must thank you all on this site for all your information and help along the way..
Welshlady
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Re: Streets or Avenues

Postby lynne99 » Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:43 pm

Sorry to hear you were ill, but lovely to hear you are on the mend now . :D
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Re: Streets or Avenues

Postby welshlady » Sat Nov 25, 2017 3:34 pm

Thank you so much Lynn..am getting there...

Welshlady..
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