Marsh Villa

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Marsh Villa

Postby liz_sutton » Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:48 pm

Hello people of Bootle, I wonder if you can help me in any way, Whilst tracing my family history, it has lead me to your town, My great great grandparents were residents here and are mentioned in the 1891 census (John W Sutton and Mary Sutton), I notice that my ancestor Mary Sutton comes up in the local directory for a house called Marsh Villa. They were still in the Orrell area in 1911
Alas, a google search of the name brings up nothing but a petrol station!
Does anyone know anything about this property at all? I am guessing it was demolished at some point. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
Also, I believe that John Sutton died here around 1893, do you know what churchyard or cemetery was in use at that time?
Many thanks,
Liz Sutton
Last edited by liz_sutton on Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Jan » Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:00 pm

:lol:

Hi Liz,

Welcome to the site,

There is a book called "Bootle Signposts" and I have just looked up Marsh Villa,

This is from the book.

Marsh Villa appears on the 1849 map and was a house on Marsh Lane, close to Bootle Hall.

Hope that helps a bit.

Jan
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Postby lily8 » Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:31 pm

Hi Liz just addind my welcome to the site.
Lily
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Postby liz_sutton » Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:58 am

Thank you for looking that up, I am getting terrible eyestrain from looking at all these old maps available! I have looked at the census and the other houses mentioned are Hawthorn cottage, Poplars and Woodlands. I don't know if these ring any bells.
Thanks again.
Liz
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Postby Thommos sister » Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:21 am

:) The houses (inc. Marsh Villa) Liz mentioned are listed as Orrell Village, page 1 in the census block.
The first "street" address is on Page 3, Barton's Lane.
Page 5 has Leeds/Lpl canal bank/brickworks then Province Rd.
Page 28 last entry has Gorsey Lane
"End Of Village"

I hope this is of some help with location.

T.S

Off topic...Jan, 1881 the Innkeeper at the Punchbowl was Henry Litherland born in Staffs :wink:
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Postby Thommos sister » Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:28 am

:) I did find one family from the "houses" mentioned in 1894 Directory, the address was Woodlands, Orrell Village.

T.S
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Postby Jan » Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:24 am

:D

Hi Tina,

I did wonder about the location, I think the info in the book is wrong, maybe there was another house of the same name, but in Bootle, I know that Bootle Hall was demolished and the Mayor of Bootle (William Jones) had bought the land to where Bootle Hall stood and built the "Welsh Streets" in it's place, but he did build houses in Orrell and Ford area.

Getting back to the question of the cem in the area, it depends what religion the family were, I would suggest Ford Cem for RC and St Mary's church Derby Road for C of E.

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Postby Thommos sister » Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:58 am

Hi Jan :)

It looks like John William Sutton died in dec qtr 1893 W Derby rego aged 65yrs.
I think he was 63 in 1891 census, Mary a lot younger.
Is there a way of looking in Ford Cem for their Deeds On File?
Thanks

T.S
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Postby Jan » Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:20 am

:lol:

I have found the area on the www.old-maps.co.uk site

It is a bit difficult to navigate, but if you go to the site, and type these numbers in in coordinates 334200 in first box then 398900 in second box I hope the map will show (1894). You can search around the map by using the little white arrows around the sides.

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Postby BOBHAMO » Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:45 pm

hi liz welcome to the site marsh villa was in orrell here is mary sutton , bobhamo[img]
ORRELL VILLAGE - W Through Bootle & Linacre


Orrell Road

Dolan Mrs Annie "Orrell House"
Kershaw Wm "Orrell Housecottage"
Peter Saml. greengrocer "The Poplars"
Kirk William Solicitor "Woodlands)
Orchardson Charles manager "Woodlands"
Sutton Mrs Mary "Marsh Villa"
Ascroft Peter Herbert "The Hawthornes"

Cinder Lane

Rigg Mrs Annis "Walnut House"
Lilley William foreman stevedore "Beech House"
Skinner Mrs Mary "The Hollies"
Orrell Village Hall[/img]
bootle born altcar road
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map

Postby BOBHAMO » Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:52 pm

Image
bootle born altcar road
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Postby BOBHAMO » Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:36 pm

hi liz i have found a few suttons in bootle 1881 have you any birth dates??? for john , bobhamo
bootle born altcar road
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Postby liz_sutton » Fri Nov 20, 2009 4:29 pm

Hi,
Wow, thank you all so much for taking the time to help me, it really is very kind and my father and I really appreciate it.
The 1881 census tells me they were living in Anfield road, walton on the hill.
I do not know what year they moved to Orrell but they are there in 1891.
John W Sutton was born in 1829 and Mary Sutton in 1851. John was an Iron Broker and their son Alfred was a apprentice Ship Store ( whatever that may be)
John died in 1893 and Mary died in 1913, both in the Orrell area.
Thanks again for all your help.
Liz
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Postby Thommos sister » Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:30 am

Thanks Liz for nice reply & good to know your father is happy too.
Great map Bob, well done :)
1901 has Alfred as a property agent, his Mum as a property owner/employer. Perhaps he collects the rents for her :wink:
Jan may know of somewhere to find old photos, library??

T.S
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Ford Cem

Postby Thommos sister » Sat Nov 21, 2009 6:14 am

Hi Jan :)
It took so long to load that I thought my Deeds on File link had been changed.
Couldn't see anything for Sutton's.

Tina
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Postby Thommos sister » Sat Nov 21, 2009 6:53 am

Hi Liz
It's the nosey wombat here :)
Was Mary the 2nd wife of John W ?

Thanks

T.S
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Postby lily8 » Sat Nov 21, 2009 7:52 am

In case you don't have it 1911 census details

Marsh Villa Orrell Village nr Seaforth
Mary Sutton 60 b Lydham? Shropshire widow
Herbert Thomas B Kiddenminster Worcester 5 nephew
Mary Evans Ladys Help 30 single b Weston Salop visitor
Mary Jane Morris servant 19 single b Bishops Castle Salop
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Postby Thommos sister » Sat Nov 21, 2009 8:45 am

Hi Lily
1911 really interesting as I wondered if John W had married Mary Thomas at St John's Lpool.
With her nephew surname Thomas being with her, it confirms it.
Thank you

T.S
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Postby Jan » Sat Nov 21, 2009 8:54 am

:lol:

I don't know of any photo's but our member Peter W Woolley has a book published Bootle & Orrell (images of England). I don't have a copy of it, so I can't say what is in it (Sorry Peter).

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Postby liz_sutton » Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:01 pm

Hi there,
Yes, I believe that Mary was Johns second wife ( this would explain why he is a lot older than her.), I have found a Margaret Sutton, Wife of John W in the 1971 census, then a record for a death of margaret sutton, liverpool, June 1871. they also appear to have an adopted son with them at the time, cannot find what happened to him though.
And Alfred (according to a note my great aunt left with her things) was a qualified auctioneer and estate agent and John W had apparently had a hand in the break up of Brunells great Eastern ship.
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Postby Jan » Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:44 pm

:shock: :?

Very strange, I have found this in the 1914 directory.

Mrs Mary Sutton Marsh Villa Orrell Village, Birkenhead!

That must be a mistake in the directory.

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Postby Jan » Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:53 pm

:lol:

It was a mistake in the directory, I looked up under Orrell Village and Mary Sutton is listed there in 1914.

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Postby Jan » Sat Nov 21, 2009 3:18 pm

:lol:

Liz,

If you go to

http://www.multimap.com/maps and type in Cinder Lane, Bootle, Liverpool,

You can zoom in and rotate the map.


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Postby Thommos sister » Sun Nov 22, 2009 6:19 am

Hi everyone
Marriage 1856 John W Sutton to Margaret Easter, St John's Lpl

What a strange surname the adopted son has in 1871 census.
Charles transcribed as Jucaiworth.
I'm wondering if he was Worth & the j bit is his middle name?
Here's the ref RG10/3761/84/42
If anyone has time to have a squizz, that would be great.

Liz, there's an aunt bn Wolverhampton with them Jane Fletcher 56.
Margaret is 37 in census so the death you found in the june 71 qtr for Margaret Sutton 37yrs must be her.

1861 they are Prince St/Hill, St Simons dist Lpool
John W is an engine fitter, bn Whampton, Margaret bn Yarmouth as next census. They have a 15 yr old William Sutton nephew with them, Royal Navy 2nd Class (??) bn Whampton.

T.S
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Postby lily8 » Sun Nov 22, 2009 6:39 am

The name is possibly JUCANWICH birth registered mar qtr 1859 Charles William Jucanwich at Liverpool ref 8b 140

A marriage took place 2nd June 1856 at Edge Hill between Louisa Easter daughter of John Easter and Mathew Jucanwich son of Antonius Jucanwich.

A death is recorded for Mathew in Liverpool 1860. Another Jucanwich was born also in Liverpool in 1861 they are the only two.
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Postby Thommos sister » Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:46 am

Fantastic Lily!!
I wonder if Louisa & Margaret were sisters?
Lancs BMD have the 1856 Marriage at St Mary's spelt as Jucanwick.

Great :)

T.S
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Postby Thommos sister » Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:31 am

Lily :)
I've found them in 1861.
I wondered if John Mathew was born after his father had died.
Just using first names they come up transcribed as
Inshaniortsh
Louisa 26 widowed bn Yarmouth
Charles W 2, John M 2mnths.
6 Norfolk St, Gt George ward Lpl.

T.S :D
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Postby lily8 » Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:52 am

Great TS that ticks all the boxes I assume that they adopted the boy to give him a good start in life as they had the means to do so. The name disappears from later census so maybe he assumed their name or he may have passed on. Anyway just another piece of family history for our poster.
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Postby Jan » Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:59 am

:lol:

Great Wombatting girls.

I wasn't getting notified to replies to posts so only just seen this.

I couldn't log in for ages either, just coming up as timed out!

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Postby lily8 » Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:05 am

Jan had the same probs but seems ok now.
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Postby Thommos sister » Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:10 am

Couldn't have done it without you mate :)
Do you think John M & Louisa both died?

I want to link Louisa & Margt together.
There are two girls in 1841 in Lpool father John who has ind means but lists born Lancs.....error?

I think I'll ask scouse forum for a look up for John M's baptism, it's at St Peter's on 8/7/1861 when he would have been 6mnths old, born 18/12/1860. (Jucanwick)

What is the real name....nothing in Google.

T.S :)

Added: posted forum for a LRO lookup baptism :)
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Postby Thommos sister » Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:24 am

Hi gals
Google kept saying earlier this morning that the link was broken..

T.S
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Postby liz_sutton » Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:42 pm

Wow, great stuff, are you all local historians?


From looking through the census, I believe John W had a brother Thomas(b.1826) who had a son William which explains the nephew visiting although I cannot find anything for him after 1861.
Thomas and John W's parents were Ann(b.1806) and William(b.1801) again, I cannot seem to trace them far.
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Postby lily8 » Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:10 pm

Here is another version JUCANOVITCH

Baptism 13th March 1859 St Peters Liverpool Charles William father and mother same as before. This spelling is more in line with what you would expect rather than wich/wick etc. Doesn't help much as no one seems to have spelt it the same way.
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Postby Thommos sister » Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:06 pm

Morning Liz & Lily

They appear to be the only people in the world in familysearch :roll:

There's a baptism for another Sutton child
William Sutton 29/4/1823 St Peter's or Collegiate Wolverhampton
He's possibly in 1851 & 1881, coal miner living in Walsall.

TTFN

T.S
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