Genies Help Please

[robinroyle]

Dear All,

Once again I am looking for some help in tracing my ancestors. I have details of my Grandfather, Evan Morris, born Q1 1890 West Derby.
I'm waiting for his birth cert for exact details.
Anyhow, he was a licensee for most of his working life, managing various Walker Cain (Walkers of Warrington) pubs around the north end of Liverpool. During and after the Second World War he had the George Tavern in Marsh Lane, and at other times up to the 1960's he had pubs around Kirkdale. That's the background, and now the question!

Is there a record anywhere of Licensing Applications, tenancy agreements etc. which may shed light on his parents' (especially mother's) details?

I have his father (William ) at 37 Beatrice Street on 7th December 1914 (Evan married Annie Garrett). I think I may also have found his mum,(Jane?) but I'm not sure, and so I'm looking for some kind of confirmation.

Any help will be most appreciated.

Thanks.

Robin

[Jan]

Hi Robin,

There are some records at Liverpool Records Office

Reference: M380 ALL/1
Description: minutes, registers, property records, etc
Date: c1904-1985
Held by: Merseyside Record Office, not available at The National Archives
NRA catalogue reference: NRA 44096
Scanned list(s):
GB1072 M380 ALL
Record creator
Walker Cain Ltd, brewers, Warrington

I don't know what they contain, but an appointment would be needed to view the records.

I think I may have found the family in 1891 and 1901 census, unless you already have that info, I think William and Jane were born in Wales.

Jan

[robinroyle]

Jan,

Thanks for the info. regarding records in Liverpool, I will follow this up when I am next home from the Land of Po!

Also, if you would be so kind, could you share the details you have regarding William and Jane? The Welsh connection is very interesting - I found a couple of interesting lines but was very unsure about them! (One was a couple William and Catherine J, and I was wondering if she was the 'Jane' ).

Thanks again!

Robin.

[Jan]

Hi Robin,

1901 Census

15a Slade Street Liverpool

William Morris head married age 52 dock labourer born Wales A? (can't make the name out)
Jane wife age 45 born Holyhead
Annie dau age 20
Lizzie dau age 18
Thomas son age 14
Evan son age 10

Children born Liverpool

1891 census 22 Aspinall Street Liverpool

William Morris head married age ? seas sailor born Holyhead
Jane wife age 35 born Holyhead
Annie dau age 10
Elizabeth dau age 8
Thomas son age 4
Evan son age 1
Children born Liverpool

Hope that helps

Jan

[Jan]

Robin,

1911 has Evan Morris living at 37 Beatrice Street Bootle, he is a visitor of William Mansell and his family, Evan's occupation Driver (horse Van) age 21 born Liverpool

Jan

[Jan]

Robin,

1911 has William and Jane Morris at 39 Orry Street

William Morris age 62 born Amlwch Holyhead Mariner Able Seaman
Jane age 56 born Holyhead

married 36 years 13 children born, 4 still living 9 died.

1881 census they are at 62 Robsart Street with their daughter Ann aged 5 months.

Jan

[robinroyle]

Jan,

Thanks a million for all this - truly excellent! Some of the details confirm points I had already identified, but the news about Orry Street is superb - it confirms rough details that my Mum told me years ago - luckily I wrote things down as she was telling me!

You've given me lots of information to get on with - I'll see what I can find , but daresay I'll be back asking for more help in the near future!

Thanks again, you're a diamond!

Robin

[Jan]

Hi Robin,

Glad to be able to help with this.

When you get Evan's birth cert, let us know his mother's maiden name, and I will try and find his parents marriage. I had a look through marriages and came across a few William Morris marriages to Jane (various years and maiden names) but not knowing exactly when and where they married is proving difficult to find the correct year and Jane's maiden name.

Jan

[robinroyle]

Jan,

Thanks again, and yes, I will be in touch when I have the details.

Best wishes,

Robin.

[Thommos sister]

Great wombating Jan, well done always ready to help!!
T.S

[robinroyle]

Jan,

I've hit something of a brick wall on Evan - it looks like Ancestry can't accept my order for certificates to be mailed to me in Poland. So I'll have to get them sent to Bootle to collect next time I'm "home".

So, to keep myself busy, I've started looking at his wife, my granny Annie (nee Garrett, born 13/12/1888) who I have got living in Beatrice Street 1911, marrying Evan in 1914. Her father is William, a seafarer born I-O-M - he was at 40 Beatrice Street 1901age 52, giving him a birth year of about 1849. I can find him on the I-O-M census in 1851, age 2 with parents Daniel and Esther.
This is the point at which it gets strange! I can find very similar records for baptism on 1/10/1848 with a mother's name Esther (nee Lace) (in one case) and Elizabeth (nee Lace) (in another case). The record is noted as "Index only Record" - no certificate etc to view. The 1848 date looks suspect - too early? (I think I've found his death Q2 1927 West Derby age 78).

How can we confirm that Esther is / is not Elizabeth and that I am going in the right direction?

Thanks in advance,

Robin

[Jan]

Hi Robin,

You would be better ordering the certificate from GRO in Southport, and not through Ancestry, they are more expensive.

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/ You will have to register on the site which is free to do, and order the birth cert following the links, it will ask you if you know the vol (volume) and page number click Yes, you will need the year, and quarter and the registration district. So in this case Evan Morris Jan-Mar Quarter 1890 district West Derby, Vol 8b page 389. The cost for the cert is about £9.25 each. You will need a credit or debit card to pay for the certificate.

I am not sure about IOM records I have never really dealt with anything from IOM. But I think civil registration of Births didn't start until about 1878. It would be difficult to know if the baptism record you found is the right one, unless the address on the records perhaps match the address from census.

However, I found the baptism on familysearch (with actual image) but only gives address as Douglas IOM. father's occupation labourer. it is spelling Daniel as Danil. https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X83W-K61

Also Daniel and Esther Lace marriage IOM 1846 (with actual image) https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XZRR-QZ5 So I think perhaps Elizabeth is probably just a mistake.

I found the family in 1851 census and saw they had another son John Garrett. Here is John's baptism, so I would say it is right with Esther Lace being their mother.


Name John Garrett
Gender Male
Christening Date 06 Aug 1846
Christening Place SAINT BARNABAS,DOUGLAS,ISLE OF MAN,ENGLAND
Father's Name Daniel Garrett
Mother's Name Esther

1861 census also shows there was a daughter Elizabeth born about 1852, I think she married Henry Corkish.


Name Henry Corkish
Spouse's Name Elizabeth Garrett
Event Date 22 Dec 1873
Event Place Liverpool Parish, Lancashire, England
Father's Name John Corkish
Spouse's Father's Name Daniel Garrett
Marital Status Single
Spouse's Marital Status Single

Hope that helps a bit.

Jan

[robinroyle]

Jan,
Once again, a million thanks - not just confirming and clarifying, moving me forward, but saving me money as well !!!!

I thought that the I-O-M may be quite an easy source with it being such a small and quite remote island, but it appears that may not be the case! However, I will persevere, and if I hit a brick wall, I'll go back to my Mancunian roots for a while!

Again, thanks!

Robin.

[Glenys]

Jan and Robin,

This is a very good site for Isle of Man help:-

http://www.isle-of-man.com/genealogy/me ... dex/page/1

Glenys

[robinroyle]

Hiya Glenys!

Thanks for your help - it looks like I'll have to plan a visit to the I-O-M as the records will need to be viewed personally because they are pre-1878.
Haven't been to the I-O-M since I was a lad, so it could be interesting!

Best wishes,

Robin.

[Glenys]

Robin,

http://iomfhs.im/lawsons/LawsonBMD/Main ... n+BMD+Home


http://www.isle-of-man.com/manxnotebook ... /index.htm

[babs22]

Dear All,

i'm looking for my brothers grave, he died may 1947 aged one month old and was pronounced dead at stanley hospital.
i have his death certificate but dont know where to start looking for where he is buried. His name is Thomas Chiocchi. Lived at 172 Fountains Road, Kirkdale.

If anybody can help me find which cemetery or where i can go to get this information i would be extremely greatful

Thank You, Babs

[lynne99]

I could find a Catherine buried Ford in 1949 and a Lewis (Louis) also buried Ford in 1945. No mention of Thomas Sorry. Perhaps he was cremated??
Perhaps the record office could help or the cemeteries office at Allerton. They are all very helpful.