For better or worse.

Join in here with our very own Bootle Chatterbox...

For better or worse.

Postby filsgreen » Sun Sep 03, 2017 2:37 pm

I was talking to a mate the other day; I suggested that people born between 1935 and 1940, have probably had the best times to live.

Of course there was the war and rationing; I would never undermine the suffering, but if you were lucky enough to come through it all relatively unscathed, you came of age around the time of full employment and great social change.

Being a teenager in the mid 50's must have been an exciting time and then came the swinging sixties. I do realise that it wasn't all glamour, life was probably more like the citchen (sic) sink dramas of that era. But to grow up in Liverpool during the 50/60's, it must have made up for all the hardship, that you had endured during the war and austerity years.

Although there was full employment till the late 70's, it must have been a shock to people who had worked for the previous 20-30 years, to suddenly find themselves on the dole.

I know the average age of the forum is probably 60 plus, so members like George McKenna and Ernie, would fall into the catchment age I'm referring to. I know several of us haven't reached our bus pass age yet, even so, could you give your opinion as well?

What I would like to know, in your opinion, was my suggestion that life was better then, or would you have preferred to have been born from say, 1980 onwards? Also, could you expand your answers to include the good, and bad things, that helped you make your decision?
filsgreen
 
Posts: 2227
Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 7:28 am

Re: For better or worse.

Postby Silver-Haired-Hippy » Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:01 pm

Very interesting post Phil, looking forward to hearing replies.

Loretta
A bit of Bootle in Wales
Silver-Haired-Hippy
 
Posts: 2565
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 5:50 pm
Location: Abergele

Re: For better or worse.

Postby bjones » Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:56 am

My best mate and I always agree that the luckiest people were, like us, born 1947 to 1953ish.
We missed the war and the worst of rationing; we were born 1950 and don't even remember it!
Jobs were easy come by, academic qualifications were rarely needed to get a start in your career. Even most "professions" didn't call for a university degree to enter. University tuition was free to the student and local authority grants readily available for maintenance.

Sure we missed the best years of the Cavern but the 60s were a FAB time to be a teenager - those born in the early 40s had made headway for us to "ride in on the waves". Almost every church hall had a regular "dance" with live music from the hundreds of local groups. and all the clubs had live music - nobody danced to "the records" before the days of disco.
And of course the biggest game changer of all.... the fear of unwanted pregnancy was significantly lessened by the advent of THE PILL!
For the first time couples were able to effectively plan their families; it became possible for married women to continue in their chosen career and in most cases only have children when they were wanted...
So many more reasons why I'm glad I was born when I was but I'll leave it to the rest of you born 1947 - 53 to tell us
Bee

"Life" is a gift to you. The way you live your life is your gift to those who come after.
User avatar
bjones
 
Posts: 5179
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:22 pm

Re: For better or worse.

Postby filsgreen » Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:25 am

Thanks for starting us off, Bee. Like you, Loretta; I too am looking forward to reading our members opinions. Bee's post fit the bill exactly :D
filsgreen
 
Posts: 2227
Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 7:28 am

Re: For better or worse.

Postby Invicta » Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:07 am

i removed my earlier response but taking a different view, we had medical conditions back in the day such as;
TB, Rickets, Polio, now we have Hypertension, Cholesterol, Diabetes.
The earlier ones caused by poor living conditions the latter ones by modern day excesses.
Maybe we didn't catch those diseases but we surely knew some one who had and for sure we know plenty with the modern diseases. We all but eradicated TB , Polio, Rickets etc but seemingly the modern diseases are at epidemic levels.
Living conditions are better, health care is better but are we generally healthier?
We have a far better standard of life than earlier, are we happier, healthier ????? :wink: Ken

ps. Sorry Phil if this was a left field response to your interesting thread, that's my take. K
Invicta
 
Posts: 2491
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2015 5:46 pm
Location: Garden of England

Re: For better or worse.

Postby filsgreen » Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:17 pm

No problems, Ken, this is exactly the response I was hoping for. Everyone views their life differently; I was focusing on the good stuff, but the poor health of the nation was still a problem.

As you've stated, common diseases like Polio and TB have been eradicated, but were still prevalent up until the mid 50's. I should have mentioned them, but like the war, it was luck on whether you contracted and succumb to them.

Today's modern diseases are, on the whole, what we have brought on ourselves. Obviously there are congenital reasons, but it's more likely that poor diet and lack of exercise has resulted in obesity, which is a major factor in contracting Diabetes, high cholesterol levels and heart disease.

Poor education and other sociological problems are to blame for the nation's deteriorating health standards, plus of course big businesses rapacious need for profit. It's no coincidence that the rise in obesity levels, directly correlate to the increase in fast food outlets and takeaways.

You've given us negative factors for both eras, Ken and in doing so, have added another dimension to the proposition. Would you like to tell us which era, you would prefer?
filsgreen
 
Posts: 2227
Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 7:28 am

Re: For better or worse.

Postby Ernie Jackson. (Bunty) » Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:04 pm

It is impossible to cover this subject in a single post.
We are all inclined to view 'our time' as the best but even that depends on what minor experience you wish, or are able, to remember.
It was certainly easy to get a job..I was in and out of work and had several in a very short time.

Grammar school kids were considered posh and rich.

The Beatles were just down the road but I never heard of them till I was nearly thirty. I was there but didn't know anything of the fabulous fifties or swinging sixties. I have no idea when those expressions evolved.

The media consisted of the Football pink on Saturday and when even younger I never knew why the bombs were dropping on us or why we were at war.We just saw, heard and smelled the results. We always felt we would survive even though the next door family had perished overnight.

The match was the highlight of the week and, as now, a win was wonderful and a loss was a disaster and a time to blame somebody involved at your favourite club.

The scenario of the title is, as I have written above, impossible to cover in a single post. One can only refer to a tiny part of the era(s) through which you have lived,
User avatar
Ernie Jackson. (Bunty)
 
Posts: 1114
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 3:25 pm

Re: For better or worse.

Postby filsgreen » Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:24 pm

Thanks for your thoughts and reflections, Ernie. I think from a Merseyside perspective, it didn't matter what era you were born, the majority of us lived or died on a Saturday afternoon at 5pm :D
filsgreen
 
Posts: 2227
Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 7:28 am

Re: For better or worse.

Postby Invicta » Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:29 pm

Events change lives Phil. Not to be soppy but marrying Janette changed things dramatically for me.
We had hard working parents who scraped by but we were fed and clothed but had little else, no outings or holidays.
Parents died young, 57 & 62 from lifestyle illnesses and later alcohol would impact further on Siblings.
I disliked school , had limited prospects or ambition. Janette came from a different kind of family and meeting her set me on a different path than what might have been expected for me. I settled down, worked hard, studied, relocated several times for job prospects and did very well albeit making some family sacrifices early on.
I'm born in 1948, we relocated from a shared house in Brookhill road in 1954 to a new house in Ford which was the countryside with lots of new experiences and new friends. We seemed to play out all day, mostly footy, cricket etc .
Those days were good but we knew no better, only later when we experienced nicer, better things did we realise what we had missed. In summary; 0 - 20 was OK , 20 - 40 was busy with career and kids but enjoying life , 40 - 60 career sorted, kids sorted, life was good , 60 - 69 a few medical age related issues and a big scare for Janette but life still good.
To answer your question, life for us as got better since 1972 when we married, a few bumps on the way but no regrets and no doubts about that answer. Best regards Ken
Invicta
 
Posts: 2491
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2015 5:46 pm
Location: Garden of England

Re: For better or worse.

Postby filsgreen » Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:50 pm

Thanks for your brief biography and opinion, Ken. Just to put a spin on your adult education which probably improved your standard of living. Like you, I only realised the importance of education in later life and only sat A levels in 1999, when I settled down. I was then encouraged to go to university.

The chances of that happening in Sefton now has been severely diminished, due to cuts in public spending. Therefore it could be contended, that even by the the start of the new millennium, it could have been advantageous to have been born prior to 1975.

You state that you had a happy childhood growing up in Ford, playing footy and cricket with your friends. You then say it was only when you were older that you missed out, may I ask what it was, that was missing from your childhood? Was it the lost chance of a good education?

I suppose what runs through all of our existence is opportunity, life chances and the ability to grab them when they come along. It would appear that you and Ernie certainly grabbed yours when they came along. We all have our misconceptions though.

I believed that every one born prior to 1950 had heard of the Beatles and enjoyed the Merseybeat scene, Ernie blew that idea out of the water. My older brother went to grammar school and we were poor. Just because you passed the 11 plus, it didn't mean you were posh, which in turn shattered Ernie's contention.

I would contend though as a generalisation, most people had heard of the Beatles and the families whose kids who went to grammar school, probably had a few Bob. :D
filsgreen
 
Posts: 2227
Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 7:28 am

Re: For better or worse.

Postby Ernie Jackson. (Bunty) » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:35 pm

I wrote some time ago that It is generally not appreciated that there are five pivotal moments in ones life.

One of Kens was most certainly meeting and marrying his most supportive partner.

That was one of mine, for sure.

My others, including that, and all life changing, were

My dad dying suddenly.
Joining the Police.
Marrying Val.
Leaving the police early and investing my total commutation in a business venture at age 50.

All of those were life changing and could have been diasterous for me. Only time has shown how fortunate I have been.

One to come?

What are yours folks?
User avatar
Ernie Jackson. (Bunty)
 
Posts: 1114
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 3:25 pm

Re: For better or worse.

Postby Shelagh » Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:36 pm

Phil; couldn't possibly give an opinion on this topic without taking up a whole page :) nevertheless will try to explain how changing times are perceived from my point of view, in as few words as possible :lol:
Background:
Born, Bootle maternity home August 1948 - mother thrilled, wanted a girl after having two boys, dad thought I was a bit on the small side 5lb. mother told him he'd have to get on with it, she's ours and she's perfect, (or so she told me)
Our family was probably poor, don't know, as I never noticed, always believed we were rich :)
Both parents worked, so had to pull my weight around the house, enjoyed the responsibility, never complained, believed in fairness, even then, helped out wherever I could!
Most friends in same position, came home from school, completed chores, played out until dark!

Education:
Catholic school up the road..learnt much in our early years, a good basic education, not many children left the infants without learning to read and write!
Free milk for all schoolchildren, free dinners for some, a school uniform for those who couldn't afford it.
Not sure what the criteria was for receiving benefit, but do know that a lot of children were in much need of clothes, shoes and food!

Religion:
A Catholic would be encouraged, or forced to attend mass every Sunday morning and holy days, would also attend benediction on a Sunday afternoon, priest's those days seemed to have enough power to chastise a child, in whichever way he saw fit, usually a whack across the head or hand (remember father Kennedy)
Noticed, Protestants from the street, only needed to go to Sunday school for one hour a week, so envious!

The priest would also call around to parishioners homes, one who came to us, always on the scrounge :lol: usually for money but sometimes for food..had the cheek to point to a cake on the table, saying, that looks nice, mother would make him a cup of tea to go with it, then we'd have a job to get rid of him :roll:

Sixties:
Skipped a lot, but others can fill in;
Gone were the days of Teddy Boys, now entering a new era, the Merseybeat scene, everyone seemed to be in a group, no silly boy bands then, Mods, Rockers, leather jackets, duffle coats, scooters, Cilla, Twiggy, Mary Quant, Carnaby Street..the story goes on and on, but all started here in the dancehall's of Liverpool, my first dance was in St Luke's Hall Crosby, known as the dancehall with the bouncing floor, great for all types of dance :) many wonderful groups appearing every week, all suited and booted with collar and tie, winkle pickers optional..
Best dancehall's around, Orrell Park Ballroom, Litherland Town Hall, St Luke's :D many more appearing later, but those mentioned were the main ones...Cavern, mainly for lunchtimes, but very clammy and claustrophobic!!

(Couldn't think of a lot that was bad, poverty for some, evictions for others, but nothing as criminal as today)

1980s good for me..but will leave that for another time :wink:
Shelagh
 
Posts: 2032
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:40 pm

Re: For better or worse.

Postby filsgreen » Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:47 am

Great memories, thanks Shelagh. We all would have appreciated more pages of your life story. :D So on reflection, would you have preferred to be born from the eighties onwards or do you think you've had it better than the kids of today?

I feel that even I have had it better than the people who were born, post eighties. I grew up in the sixties and was a teenager in the seventies, just in time for Glam rock. Yeah, the seventies was great for music, but I preferred the sixties, due to the great musical education I received from my parents.

I got on the coat tails of full employment, when I left school in 1975. Like Ken; I disliked school and left with 2 CSE's in maths and English, however, that wasn't bad considering I was hardly there for the last two years, but that did not stop me from finding work. As I've said; I only realised the importance of education, near the end of the millennium.

I'm glad that I was brought up with the threat of corporal punishment and consequences to my actions. As I've said I sagged school for most of the 4/5 years and paid the price, it was usually six of the best. On a few occasions my parents had to go to Litherland town hall to explain my truancy. I only realised in later life, why my behaviour towards school was so bad, but that's another story.

I was the exception to the rule though, as the cane normally deterred my peers from truancy, as they did not want to suffer the consequences. Yes, there were evil teachers who were sadistic and revelled in that part of their role. If you look at today's school children, what are the consequences for their bad behaviour?
filsgreen
 
Posts: 2227
Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 7:28 am

Re: For better or worse.

Postby Invicta » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:44 am

Phil, I said a good childhood, not a happy one. Good by what We made of it, mostly from being outdoors. Not sure happy came in to it.
One thing I omitted in my comments was the huge amount of luck I had career wise. My contemporaries were better educated, toffs really but that didn't matter to my Finnish employers, they saw something and let me develop despite the best efforts of local bosses. One of them, I'll call Posh Scouse , had a big problem with a Bootle lad getting on and later we would be serious competitors both working for Finnish companies in London. :wink: Ken
Invicta
 
Posts: 2491
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2015 5:46 pm
Location: Garden of England

Re: For better or worse.

Postby filsgreen » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:55 am

I'm sorry for misunderstanding you, Ken. Once again misconceptions comes to bear. :oops: Thanks for expanding on your experiences.
filsgreen
 
Posts: 2227
Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 7:28 am

Re: For better or worse.

Postby Shelagh » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:59 am

Phil; answer in a nutshell, yes, most definitely fifties/sixties best decades to grow up in!
No massive debt; no mortgages, loans, credit cards, online gambling, luxury holidays..didn't need them, had everything we wanted.
Didn't need technology, gadgets, expensive toys, used our imagination, made our own entertainment, and kept healthy by playing outdoors...wouldn't change a thing :)

Difference of nineteen years between eldest and youngest son, each thinking they were born in the right decade.. each having different opinions, different philosophies, different aspirations!
Both equally appreciative of who they are and what they have,,that'll do me :wink:

Both good Evertonians too :wink:
Shelagh
 
Posts: 2032
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:40 pm

Re: For better or worse.

Postby ken » Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:17 pm

These days I only look at the Bootle site occasionally – like a lot of others I think. I read but don't feel inclined to comment but the question of who did best out of the generations pre-war/postwar etc is interesting. Like earlier contributors there are positives and negatives. So a few points...

I was always hungry but I bet a growing boy even now eats more than his dad - I think it is said a teenage boy can happily eat up to 40% more than his dad. I know there were shortages but what we got was rationed out more or less fairly and healthy and that had never happened before - codliver oil, orange juice, cocoa – I loved them all.

I was the eldest and my dad was a paratrooper and not around. So a lot of youngsters in wartime were really brought up mostly by their mothers. I resented it when he did come home occasionally because I didn't know who this big growly man was who turned up then went away again. I got a brother two years after me presumably because my dad got leave! and then another six years later after the war was over. They write about baby boomers being the fortunate generation but I think it does also apply to wartime children – smaller families so just a bit more to go round? Later my dad said he was glad to get out of the Melanear – terrible place apparently and when he came home there was other work.

I went to grammar school and put it down to my mam being on her own with a young child to whom she could devote her whole attention. My two brothers couldn't have had it as good as I did. They didn't quite make it. I was the lucky one.

As far as I was concerned the occasional air raids I saw from upstairs windows, prefabs, bomb sites, barrage balloons tethered in school playgrounds and elsewhere, shortage of sweets and other things didn't make any impression. That's what life was like if you're little with limited experience of anything.

Like one or two earlier contributors I could write more but don't want to become boring. On balance I'd say a small degree of deprivation doesn't do anyone any harm – people learn to grit their teeth and get on with it.

Ken
Roberts, Allison are the Bootle names I'm interested in.

Thorp(e), Ballard, Parry, Lucas, Dodd, Jacobson, are Liverpool ancestors.
ken
 
Posts: 236
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 1:29 pm
Location: FRANCE

Re: For better or worse.

Postby Shelagh » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:14 pm

Enjoyed reading your post, Ken, interesting part of history, sounds as if your dad was intruding on the cosy domestic routine that you had become accustomed to.
Heard others say the same thing, life was never the same after their father's returned from war..can't imagine how unsettling this would be for a young child, bit like a stranger encroaching on his/her world...so glad I was born after the war years!!

Thanks for sharing :)
Shelagh
 
Posts: 2032
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:40 pm

Re: For better or worse.

Postby Ernie Jackson. (Bunty) » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:50 am

Great memories from all which bring to mind just how poor we all were.But despite everything I think we all had a wonderful and memorable childhood.

Having read these memoirs I have tried to remember our family holidays but the only one I recollect was Babs and I goining to the IOM with mum for a week in 1939.

Dad had to keep up his work as a docker. I can't remember the family four ever having a holiday together. Neither can I recollect wondering why? That is just how it was.
User avatar
Ernie Jackson. (Bunty)
 
Posts: 1114
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 3:25 pm

Re: For better or worse.

Postby Invicta » Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:09 am

What's that old Bootle saying? "We knew him when he had no ar*e in his trousers"
It could be applied to a lot of us. :roll: K
Invicta
 
Posts: 2491
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2015 5:46 pm
Location: Garden of England

Re: For better or worse.

Postby bjones » Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:27 pm

Ken :lol: I knew him when he had no ar*e in his kecks too and I knew her when she had a brown stone sink! Love those expressions; usually levelled at the same people of whom you'd say "fur coat and no drawers" or "big 'ead, no grub in the 'ouse".
Bee

"Life" is a gift to you. The way you live your life is your gift to those who come after.
User avatar
bjones
 
Posts: 5179
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:22 pm


Return to Chat about anything with the Bootle Bucks

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest