The Teapot Murders

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The Teapot Murders

Postby Martin » Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:08 pm

Hi,

Does anyone know anything about the Teapot Murders (Millers Bridge)
that was supposed to have happened in Bootle?
what really happened? Is it true?

Martin from Bootle


__________________________________________________


Re: The Teapot Murders.

Found this post dated 6th of April 2005 on the Rootsweb.com site.

Very little info available online about it it seems.



Having bought Peter Wooley's latest book, I was interested to see mention of
the 'Teapot Murders' - so-called because they took place in Lyons Street. I
have members of my Deaves family living there in 1881 and 1891 and would like
to find out more about these murders. The census enumerator made a note in
his book - 'low Irish district'! Despite contacting Peter Wooley I have no more
real information although they must have generated a huge amount of interest
at the time. There are some passing references to 'the street that died of
shame' and, indeed, its name was changed to Beresford Street. Only a few yards
of the street now survives. Has anyone any further crumbs they can throw me?

Ian

http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/EN ... 1112783029

___________________________________________________


Hi Martin You have got my interest in the teapot murders my ggrandparents lived in Lyones St in the mid 1800.my grandfather
married from 73 Lyones st my gmotherlived at 19 Lyones married in St Alexanders church bootle i to would like to find out ?? what was what.
love the site B/P/P. cheers Vera

Vera V.F.C.

______________________________________________________

Hiya all,

I have sent an e-mail to Crosby Library to ask if they have anything on the Teapot Murders! Still waiting for a reply. Does anyone know when these murders took place? time scale?

I have also asked in my local post office, the staff there are great, they are making some enquiries with customers, so fingers crossed, we may get some answers.

Jan

___________________________________________________________


Hi again,

I had a reply from Crosby Library and the only info they could give was from Peter Wooley's book.

Lyons Street was once teeming with all sorts of criminals, prostitutes etc. Two prostitutes were brutally murdered in the filthy hovels by 3 seamen. Dubbed The Teapot murders after the Tea company, because of the street's name.

It looks like a trip to Crosby to look through old newspapers!

Jan

___________________________________________________


I will look in the census records and see who lived in Lyons street in 1881, 91, 1901.

Jan

___________________________________________________


My grandad lived in 33 Lyons St in 1881, i have a book written by reg brookes called Never a dull Moment. he writes a little bit about Lyons St and the other 2 streets that were as notorious Raleigh and Dundas St. Lawlessness was rife in the area. these are some quotes from the book:
Lyons St .... towards the end of its' days was summed up in the Bootle Times in these words 'It was recognised as the worst thoroughfare in the borough and on many occasions has figured in the annals of crime (doesn't say what)
Lyons St.... where redoubtable females would settle quarrels among themselves with blows in public, sometimes adding to the drama by stripping off before they started.
Lyons st the street that died of shame.
The men of this area generally made a nuisance of themselves insulting passers by and inflicting gang terrorism on the passers by.

Sheila

_______________________________________________________


Hi Sheila,

Nothing has changed that much!

Seriously though, I had a look on the 1891 census for Lyons Street, and I found that most of the residents were Irish born, dock labourers and Jute workers. I found The Yorkshire Vaults pub run by John R Williams. I found The Gainsborough Hotel at 20 Regent Road run by John N Griffiths.

I have been trying to get the 1881 on familysearch, but that has been going haywire!

I will have a look at 1901.

Jan
_____________________________________________________


on the 1891 did the Brays still live in Lyons st at 33 and if so does it say where Patrick was from in Ireland

Sheila

______________________________________________________


On the 1891 33 Lyons Street was occupied by Andrew Bray born Liverpool! along with Wife Mary and daughter Mary.

Jan

__________________________________________________


Hi Sheila

Brays in 1881:
Dwelling: 33 Lyons St
Census Place: Bootle Cum Linacre, Lancashire, England

Patrick BRAY M 47 M Ireland
Rel: Head
Occ: Dock Labourer
Mary BRAY M 46 F Ireland
Rel: Wife
Ann BRAY U 22 F Ireland
Rel: Dau
Andy BRAY U 19 M Bootle
Rel: Son
Occ: Dock Labourer
Mary BRAY U 17 F Bootle
Rel: Dau
Rosa BRAY 15 F Bootle
Rel: Dau
Eliza BRAY 13 F Bootle
Rel: Dau
Edward BRAY 11 M Bootle
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Thomas BRAY 9 M Bootle
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Maggie BRAY 8 F Bootle
Rel: Dau
Occ: Scholar
Martin
 

Surely somebody MUST know something??

Postby n3ttl3 » Fri Mar 24, 2006 5:46 pm

Come along folks! Surely someone must know something about this mystery? I have been on Seel House Press, Amazon, abebooks, rarebooks, sefton library online catalogue and can't find any mention of the book Never A Dull Moment, the Bootle Story by R Brooks! Even tried the Bootle Times online but can't search for it.

Someone mentioned that Raleigh Street and Dundas Street were just as notorious as Lyons Street - Well, my great Grandparents lived in 300 Dundas Street! They were quite law abiding (i think and hope)! :lol: Looking at the map now though, Dundas street is quite considerably shorter than it used to be! anyone have any photos of the area?

I asked my mum, but she'd never heard of the teapot murders but did confirm that there were lots of 'prozzy's and fights' due to the proximity to the docks.

I need to know!!!!!

Annette
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Postby Jan » Fri Mar 24, 2006 6:13 pm

Hi Annette,

I think Peter Wooley would be our best bet, I think he was a police man, so he obviously knows something about them to put it in his book.


I will do some investigating! :wink:

Jan
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Lyons St

Postby Betty » Sat Mar 25, 2006 12:30 am

The "Teapot" murders appear to have occurred in the mid 19th century as Lyons St was renamed Beresford St in 1878. Peter Woolley was in the Merseyside Police and retired in 1992.
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Postby Jan » Sat Mar 25, 2006 1:45 am

Hiya Betty,

I have a book Bootle Signposts and it mentions Lyons Street being re-named to Beresford Street in 1910.

This was one of a number of slum streets in the area with the highest mortality rate, at one time there were 14 pubs and 3 pawnbrokers in this small area. :roll:

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Postby Jan » Sat Mar 25, 2006 2:22 am

:D

I have just been looking at the 1901 census and Lyons Street was still there.

I also looked in the 1911 directory and it had Beresford Street (Late Lyons Street) Bootle.

Jan
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Postby Mack » Fri Oct 27, 2006 4:16 am

Any more info anyone? This is one of those fascinating stories that were lost in time...

Mack
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Postby Kathy John Moorcroft » Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:21 am

Hi Mack, I can recall, an old aunt of mine, my fathers sister ( Originally from Howe Street,) ( two street`s away from where Lyons Street was ) telling me, that there was a cafe once on the corner of Beresford Street, ( late Lyons Street )and Derby Road, called the Teapot Cafe, this would probably be around 1915/1918, as she was born around 1900, This cafe evidently had an enormous Teapot hanging on chains outside the door entrance, and it apparently stayed on display for many many years, perhaps maybe into the 1930`s ?? possibly even later?? By her accounts the local lads used to see who could jump up the highest and `clang` this ornate pot with a stick. She did say even in her time, Seafarers,were pre warned to give those two particular named Streets, ( Howe, and Beresford ) a `Wide Berth` Like anywhere else, in the world though Mack, I`m sure there was the (`Rough with the Smooth ) Those streets were named after `Sea Lords` and `Admirals` Howe Effingham , Raleigh , Drake , Dundas, Rodney , Nelson, Benbow, (etc) not much to go on regarding the `Murders` but just a little bit about the area. Cheers John
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Postby margaret willee » Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:23 am

tea pot murders . sounds like some thing Aggie(christe ) would write . about . if anybody finds out more please tell me ,, another ? how do i get hold off Books by Peter Wooley
have a great day .......
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Postby Patricia Simpson » Fri Oct 27, 2006 9:27 pm

Hi, Margaret, See 'Peter Woolley' page on forum, he mentions anyone who wants any book/s of his to contact him, probably you can send email to him from site and he'd advise you.

Good luck. I have the BOOTLE one and will be getting more if I can as they are very informative and even the young grandchildren have looked at them. Cheers, Pat
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Teapot Muders.

Postby Peter W » Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:00 pm

During my research for my latest book(an excellent Christmas Present) I found very little on the "Teapot Murders". They were named after where the murders took place "Lyons Street ". Lyons was a very popular blend of tea, so "Teapot Murders.

Some of the information in my book came from " NEVER A DULL MOMENT" The Bootle Story by Reg Brooks. Published in 1968 by Seel House Press, Liverpool. I quote an extract from it. "As docks, warehouses, timber wharfs, obliterated Bootle's shore, Lyons Street, Dundas Street, Raleigh Street, a terrible trio of alley-connected thoroughjfares running off Derby Road, south of Millers Bridge, were the town, scarlet badge of infamy.

The houses were appallingly constructed - and into ready-made slums flocked harlets and every conceivable brand of villain, looking for easy money from 'soft touches ' of whom there were many among the construction workers and Jacks-ashore from the ships. (A bit like today(My quote"). Mayhem and murder, booze and bawdiness, along with child neglect, made these streets and their environs a by-word in Merseyside notoriety in the closing decades of the last century and at the beginning of the next.

Raleigh Street, belongs to the commerce of dockland and has no houses now. Dundas Street has gone. Whatever happend to Lyons Street?

Lyons Street...whose murders were dubbed "Teapot Murders" presumerbly because the street bore the name as a tea brand.

Lyons Street... which towards the end of its days was to be summed up in the Bootle Times, in these words. " It was recognised as the worst thoroughfare in the borough and on many occasions its name was figured in the local annals of crime.

Lyons Street... were redoubtable females would settle their quarrels among themselves with blows in public, sometimes adding to the drama by stripping-off before they started.

Whatever happend to Lyons Street?.
Well if you walk south along Derby Road from Millers Bridge. you'll come to Beresford Street: a cu-de-sac a few yards long. Most of the Street was cleared of slums and the ship repairers and engineers built on the site. (I could not find a date for the murders).

Lyons Street, the street that died of shame. Its name was changed to Beresford Street, because Lyons Street brought a fould taste to the tongue.
The naming took place a few years before the First World War. Shortly prior to the building over of most of the street.(Unquote).

"Recent pictures, an old of the area in,"BOOTLE and ORRELL"
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Postby Mack » Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:38 pm

Thanks for that Peter

It certainly brings much more info about the area to the "Teapot Murders" topic.

I know Jan is fascinated by the murders + has been looking all over the place to find out more info.

Best wishes

Mack
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Postby Jan » Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:41 pm

:lol:

Thanks Peter & Mack,

I have a copy of Never a dull moment and have read the info.

I think I mentioned somewhere that I looked at the 1901 census and Lyons st was still there then, I have the 1911 Directory for Liverpool, and it has Beresford St Listed as (late Lyons St).

The part in the book where it says Annals of Crime, I wonder where this info is from, as Reg Brookes does not mention that much about sources for his info.

I am thinking that these murders were probably between 1900 and 1910.

Jan
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Teapot Murders

Postby piparth » Tue Oct 31, 2006 6:22 am

Vera-It was great talking to you the other evening-much better than texting. I see there is a hive of information on the Teapot Murders that you said you were interested in. We had a long chat with Cathy and found that it was her brother John who was very ill. At least thanks to you we have made contact with Cathy and her family. Many thanks for your interest-I'll keep in touch if only to learn more about the Teapot murders.
Warmest Regards
Pete
Kadina South Australia
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Postby margaret willee » Wed Nov 01, 2006 11:35 am

thanks Peter for the info about the" tea pot murders . "you painted a very live picture . and they talk abou the good old days .
have a great day .......
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Postby Allan Stoddern » Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:06 pm

Jan wrote::D

I have just been looking at the 1901 census and Lyons Street was still there.

I also looked in the 1911 directory and it had Beresford Street (Late Lyons Street) Bootle.

Jan
Jan, this 1911 directory that you have. I don't suppose you would be able to look at Kirk Rd and find any Jones could you. The members of that family I have been looking for, as part of my family history. I always go wayward with the name Jones, it being so common and all. Any help would be a bonus
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The tea-pot murders

Postby peter davenport » Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:08 pm

Peter
What is the name of your latest book and when was it published?

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Postby Jan » Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:20 pm

:lol: :lol:

This may help in a time scale for the Teapot murders,

http://www.kzwp.com/lyons/

It is said that these murders were dubbed the Teapot murders because of Lyons Street and Lyons tea being around back then.

Jan
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Teapot Murders.

Postby Peter W » Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:23 pm

F.A.O. Peter D. My latest book as mentioned on other threads on the super forum is:-

" BOOTLE & ORRELL " It containes about 250 photoraphs, drawings and maps from 1896 to the present day. As regards this thread, there are old photographs including the Bakers on corner of Dundas Street and Derby Road. Also a modern view of the same corner. There is a modern view of what is left of Beresford Street (Lyons Street ).
The book is available from me at £12.99p plus P&P. Signed of course. :lol:
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Bootle&orrell.

Postby vera » Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:31 am

Hi Peter .
:lol: thank you for your mail please hold a book for me Bootle. Orrell
I have a friend soon to visit Australia, so i will speak to you later.
Cheers Vera.
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Postby Mack » Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:13 am

I've just received this email from Peter Woolley with more info...

Best wishes

Mack

____________________________________________________

The Teapot Murders
Photo locations


The corner shop at the junction of Derby Road, and Dundas Street, Bootle.
Its actually a Bakers owned by John Looney.
In the doorway Mrs. Looney takes a welcome break from the heat of the bakery ovens.

Image


Two Bootle Historians Look up at the Beresford Street sign,
that replaced the original one of LYONS STREET,

Image

Peter W
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Postby sheila » Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:43 am

Peter

the 2 historians were, on the left, Arthur Hardman, chief librarian and Fred Lacey who worked in the town clerks office.

Arthur was responsible for filming all the important events in the borough, such as mayor making, mayoral sunday and rememberance sunday.

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Postby IanA » Tue Nov 21, 2006 8:54 pm

As the person who prompted this whole thread, I can't see that we are any further on. Peter Wooley refers to these notorious murders - so notorious that no-one can produce a single fact about them! I am still eager for information.
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The teapot murders

Postby Peter W » Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:54 pm

As the one who started this thread, I can only give you the information that i found out in my research. One of the reasons for very little information is that it was only reported in the local paper and as far as i know it did not reach the nationals. I would suggest that if you can further research the subject and glean any further information, please let us know. Don't blame me!.
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Postby IanA » Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:19 pm

Not blaming anyone, Peter, least of all you!

If the murders were reported in the local paper, can we see a transcript of the report?

Unfortunately, I now live in Scotland - not the best place for research into Lyons Street!

Ian
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Postby Jan » Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:33 pm

Peter & Ian,

Have a look at this website,
http://www.real-crime.co.uk/Murder1/docc.htm

Scroll down to Peter Cassidy.

He murdered his wife in Bootle in 1884.

There are loads of names on there, it would take ages to look through them all.

The only way of researching would be to either get any info from the minutes of the meetings of the council from when they changed the name of Lyons St, probably round about 1909.

Beresford St is listed in the 1911 Directory as (late Lyons St)

Or trawling through newspapers from about 1887 and before 1911.

I found Peter Cassidy's death registered on ancestry.

England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index: 1837-1983
about Peter Cassidy
Name: Peter Cassidy
Estimated birth year: abt 1830
Year of Registration: 1884
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at Death: 54
DISTRICT: West Derby
County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 354 (click to see others on page)
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Postby Jan » Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:54 pm

:lol:

Hi again,

This is taken from the book "Bootle Signposts"

Beresford Street (1910) It was previously known as Lyons Street, the name change being suggested by The Bootle Scaling Co. in 1910.

It is named after Lord Charles William De Poer, Lord Beresford (1846-1919).

There is more to that paragraph but just mentions about Lord Beresford's career.

Jan
Last edited by Jan on Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Jan » Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:05 am

:lol:

I looked in 1911 Directory

What I found was Bootle Scaling Co - Ship Sealers 114 - 118 Beresford Street Bootle.

Jan
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beresford st

Postby dave1968 » Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:54 am

i work in lodwick street 2 streets away the only street with old cobbled road 2 old young looking old ladys came down the road the other week said they used to live in lodwick street in the 1940s how old is the cobbled road .
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teapot murder.

Postby vera » Wed Nov 22, 2006 2:18 am

:roll: Hi Jan That was a very interesting link male murder's
Cheers Vera.
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Postby Jan » Wed Nov 22, 2006 8:09 am

:lol:

Hi Dave1968,

Lodwick Street is listed in the street Directory for 1884, under Derby Rd Kirkdale.

In the 1911 Directory it was coal yards and team owners who dominated the street.

So it is a very old street.

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Postby Jan » Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:02 pm

:lol: :lol: :D

At last!

I have today been given this information on the Murder of a woman in Lyons Street, this was sent to me by a very very good friend of mine, and after other enquires from Crosby library, the following was found in a book by David Parry (paletine Books), "Murder in Edwardian Merseyside"

[b]LYONS STREET, BOOTLE.

On 1st December 1903 the trial was held of James McGuirk 23, a fireman and Elizabeth Watson, 26, a factory worker. They were brother and sister and were charged with the murder of Margaret Donoghue, 25, a bag sorter of Bostock Street in Bootle. She died at Bootle Hospital as a result of terrible head injuries sustained at a house in Lyons Street on the night of 26 September.

This goes on for two pages, so thought a bit too long to post here.

James McGuirk was sentenced to 14 years Penal Servitude, his sister was not sentenced due to lack of evidence.

Well there we have it at long last!

I have checked the 1901 census, and true enough the McGuirk family lived at 60 Lyons Street.

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Postby IanA » Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:18 pm

Well Jan, have a small shandy on me. :D

You do seem to have cracked it after much hard work on your part. Many thanks indeed. I wonder why this particular murder gained so much notoriety? It seems like a 'normal' sordid domestic incident. Another thought (I hope I don't sound ungrateful) but wasn't the headline 'Teapot Murders'? I wonder whether there were others thus gaining the 'street that died of shame' label.

Perhaps worth keeping our eyes peeled for other snippets from Lyons Street?

Thanks again,

Ian
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Postby Jan » Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:32 pm

:D

Hi IanA,

There must have been other murders in the area around the time, I know there were quite a few in the area in 1897, I had posted the stories on them on here somewhere, so maybe being within that area they were dubbed the teapot murders.

I would have to go to the library to get a look at the papers from that time and see what other snippets can be found.

Murders back then were treated as a terrible shock, not like today, another murder is just another story in the papers/tv these days, there are too many of them happening!

I got the 1897 newspapers on the ancestry website.

Jan
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Teapot Murders.

Postby Peter W » Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:15 pm

Murders around Lyons Street were not dubbed the "Teapot Murders" only the one in LYONS Street, as Lyons was the most popular tea at the time. I did mention this in previous threads on the subject.
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