The Teapot Murders

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TEAPOT

Postby ron waters » Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:45 pm

Are you trying to STIR things up again Peter
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Postby IanA » Fri Mar 02, 2007 8:26 am

Peter - you can't have ONE murder called the Teapot MurderS :shock:
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Re: TEAPOT

Postby Kathy John Moorcroft » Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:19 am

ron waters wrote:Are you trying to STIR things up again Peter
HIYA RON, There`s nothin`Brewin` It`s been very `Cozey` on here, `Keep a lid on it` I don`t know the `Saucer` Yer `Info`It`s all a storm in a `Teacup` We will get thrown to the `Lyons`, They might give us,:- `One lump or Two`If yer keep `Spouting`about `Stirring it`, with a large `Spoon`. Me `Chest` is `Straining` to `Handle` it all. theres better way`s to `Urn` a `Cuppa`, This`Big Brown Mug` needs a `Caddy` :roll: John
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Postby Jan » Fri Mar 02, 2007 10:17 am

:D

We need to find evidence of more murders, I have found the McGuirk case is at the National Archives in Kew!

Assizes: Northern Circuit: Criminal Depositions and Case Papers ASSI 52/82
Murder: McGuirk, James and Watson, Elizabeth . Murder: McGuirk, James and Watson, Elizabeth Assizes: Northern Circuit: Criminal Depositions and Case Papers The National Archives, Kew

Date: 1903.

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Teapot Murders

Postby bootlebuck » Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:16 pm

Hi Pter W, at times like this one wishes it possible to talk to dead ancestors,I bet my Gx4 granpappy would know the answer being the FIRST & only scuffa in BOOTLE at the start of policeing [1840ish] according to his record he was only 5'9" but from what i've read of the frontere town called Bootle he must have been a right hardman frae the Highlands & not afraid to mix it a bit. As I say I bet he could tell us a tale or three,anyone for a seance maybe get some help from Doris Stokes. VBG.
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tea -pot

Postby vera » Sun Mar 04, 2007 1:16 pm

Hi Jan, Thank you for the last info . golly who knows what we might find
thanks Peter, Martin, just wondering . are you still with us this was your opening topic some time back. my grand parents married from
This very street as did Sheila. from Bootle. wonder how many more on line Bootle Past Present and Future Grand Parents with the Irish Roots.
came to this very street. Hand's Up. Cheers vera.
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Postby Jan » Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:53 pm

:D :(

Another murder at Lyons Street!

On Monday 14th December 1908 at St Georges Hall before Mr justice Channel and a jury opened the trial of John Trench, accused of murdering six-year-old Thomas Foy at Bootle some time between 24 and 26 October 1908.

The boys body was found at number 71 Lyons Street Bootle!

The story is again quite long, so can't put it all on here.

This story was also found in the book "Murder in Edwardian Merseyside" by David Parry.

So there we have what we can now confirm The Teapot Murders.

The case papers are also at the national archives in Kew.

Assizes: Northern Circuit: Criminal Depositions and Case Papers ASSI 52/138
Murder: Trench, John . Murder: Trench, John Assizes: Northern Circuit: Criminal Depositions and Case Papers The National Archives, Kew

Date: 1908.

:lol:

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tea -pot

Postby vera » Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:20 pm

Hi Jan, Many thanks for that info. yes i am still very interested in this street , with thanks Vera.
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Re: tea -pot

Postby n3ttl3 » Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:41 pm

vera wrote:wonder how many more on line Bootle Past Present and Future Grand Parents with the Irish Roots.
came to this very street. Hand's Up. Cheers vera.


Hi Vera

Hands well and truly up - ancestors from both Lyons and Dundas Street :shock: All very respectable I'm sure!

All the best

Annette :)
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T Pot Murders

Postby bootlebuck » Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:09 pm

Jan I feel you are wasting your time working in a care home,I think your time would be better spent in MARSH LANE NICK.
If the scuffers in suits were half as diligent as you crime would go down overnight.I think Mr Wooly would have to agree.
You are not only a great asset to this site I think you are an asset to Bootle History full stop, so please keep up the good work.
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Postby Jan » Sat Mar 10, 2007 12:05 am

:oops:

Thanks Steuart,

I don't work in a care home these days, I gave that up years ago! I work in a school now.

I do owe a big thank you to a very good friend of mine for giving me the name of the book "Murder in Edwardian Merseyside" I wouldn't have got the info on the murders without my friend and Crosby Library.

The book has 49 murders in it, there are some more for Bootle, one in Beatrice Street and one in Raleigh St.

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tea -pot

Postby vera » Sat Mar 10, 2007 1:08 pm

Hi Annette, yes hands up me to. How i wish we could find out more
about these streets. I try to give one day a week at my local Library just digging for more. Cheers Vera.
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Postby IanA » Sat Mar 10, 2007 7:13 pm

Well done Jan! :)

A first-rate sleuth!!
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Postby daveowe » Sun Jun 08, 2008 8:29 pm

Hi Jan

I was following up Big Daves reference to a murder in Irlam Road but as yet no luck in verifying. However to add to your post on the murder of 6 year old Thomas Foy, the accused John Trench was found not guilty and as such the murder is unresolved. In addition the Raleigh Street which was in proximity to Lyons St, ('Bootle Signposts' refers to this Street as the location of the teapot murders) had a most brutal murder. Catherine Hughes wife of John Hughes residing in a lodging house at 36 Raleigh St was found guilty of her murder. He received 15 years for manslaughter, the judge in summing up said Catherine Hughes had 'lived a life not fit for a dog' His relations with his wife said the judge 'scarcely human' he went on to say there is too much of this horrible brutality, drunkeness and the use of the knife. This summing up gave rise to the sobriquet, 'Brutal Bootle'

Another murder 8th October 1902 at 27 Oriel Road, Elizabeth Marsden a spinster was found dead through suffocation. Three girls who had worked as domestics for the deceased, at various times, were charged with her murder. Eliza Hamilton aged 19, Eva Eastwood aged 17 and Ethel Rollinson aged 20. Eliza Hamilton turned Kings evidence to testify against the co-accused and was freed from prosecution. Both were found guilty of wilful murder and sentenced to death. The jury recommended mercy 'on account of their youth and sex' both had sentences commuted to life imprisonment.

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Postby marielou » Sun Jun 08, 2008 8:59 pm

Dave,There was a murder on Irlam Rd. the ladys name was Emma grace,it was on an earlier thread on this site, if you PM Jan she has lots of info on this murder.

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Postby vicbee » Sun Jun 08, 2008 9:28 pm

Found this

Sep 29 2007 by Dawn Collinson Liverpool Echo:

LYONS Street in Bootle was once the scene of so many murders, it was renamed Beresford Street, and known locally in the early 20th century as the “street that died of shame”.
The notoriety linked with the street can be traced back to a singularly heinous crime – the brutal killing of several prostitutes by two sailors – known as the Teapot Murders, because Lyons was associated with the famous tea-brand during that period.

If such infamy was not enough to blacken a street-name, there came two other terrible widely-reported murders on Lyons Street: the vicious and cruel killing of Maggie Donoghue, who had her brains bashed out by fireman Jim McGuirk in 1903, and the mysterious, callous killing of six-year-old Tommy Foy in 1908.

But let me digress from the criminological history of that Bootle street, and allow me, via your imagination, to transport you back to Lyons Street in 1896, to a crumbling draughty old terraced house. The house was number 48, and its ground floor was a shop that sold everything, run by a Mrs Annie Burns.

In October 1896, a woman named Maureen Mack left Mackenzies Boarding House in Howe Street, Bootle after a lively argument with a lodger. She and her seven-year-old daughter Eileen found new lodgings over the shop of Annie Burns on Lyons Street, and settled in to their new home fairly quick.

Mrs Mack slept in one room, and little Eileen was given her very own room – in the loft. One night, close to Hallowe’en, a loud racket was heard in Eileen’s room, and when her mother went to see what the matter was, the girl made enigmatic remarks about “Skeetchy and Bumph” – two odd-looking shadows that had been visiting her over the past three nights. ‘Oh go to sleep!’ said a grumpy impatient Mrs Mack, and she closed the bedroom door and went back to bed.

When Maureen Mack settled back into bed, she thought about the strange things her daughter had told her. Eileen wasn’t a particularly bright or imaginative child, and her mother wondered if the girl had seen something supernatural.

On the following night, Eileen went to bed around 8pm, and minutes later, Maureen heard strange-sounding voices in her daughter’s room. She crept upstairs to the loft door, screwed up an eye, and peeped with the other one through the draughty keyhole. What Maureen saw caused her to tremble.

Two sinister shadows of two peculiar-looking beings were moving on the wall next to Eileen’s bed. One was horned like the devil, but was as bulky as an elephant, and the other was thin, with a tapering cone-shaped head, and they were fighting. Eileen, meanwhile was sitting up in bed, chuckling and clapping her hands at the antics of this Punch-and-Judy-style shadow play.

Mrs Mack made the sign of the cross and burst into the room to grab a startled Eileen. ‘Leave her alone you wretch!’ said the skinny shadow, waving a fist at Maureen.

Mrs Mack screamed and ran down five flights of stairs in her nightdress, dragging Eileen after her.

Mother and daughter never returned to that house, and Eileen missed her mysterious friends sorely, even though she didn’t know what they were or why they existed only as shadows

. We’ll probably never know who Skeetchy and Bumph were either!
researching Brennan, Porter, Carey,Kneen, Casaru, Barber, Hegarty.
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Postby margaret willee » Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:45 am

very good vicbee strange story ... margaret
have a great day .......
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Postby sheelagh youssef » Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:56 am

A bit scary that one Vicbee, glad I didn,t read it before going to bed...Sheelagh.
P.S. the one with the cone head sounds like BobF.
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Postby frank delamere » Mon Jun 09, 2008 6:34 pm

argh now SHEELAGH
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Postby Mack » Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:19 pm

PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC !!! I HAVE REMOVED ALL REPLIES THAT WHERE NOT RELATED TO THE TEAPOT MURDERS.

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teapot murder

Postby BootleNY » Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:38 am

I found this is this what you're talking about?
http://www.old-merseytimes.co.uk/kirkdalepoisoning.html
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Postby Mack » Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:13 am

WOW Bootle NY thanks for that... I have transcribed it the best i can... copy and paste was disabled from the origional website....

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Southport Visitor< April 9th 1852

ATTEMPT TO POISON AT LIVERPOOL

Two women Sarah RIMMER and Ann RIMMER living in Kirkdale were charged at Liverpool Police Court last week with attempting to poison Elizabeth RIMMER, aged 19, daughter of the former

On Sunday evening [week] the prisoners had been quarrelling with the girl, the prisoner Ann RIMMER, her aunt, called out,

“If you don’t go away and leave home I’ll give you poison, or try some other means.”
She was heard by a man named, William BLUNDELL, who resides in the same court

On Monday afternoon the girl had been out, and upon her return at 2pm, her mother asked had she been looking out for a situation, the girl said she had, but, hadn’t found one to suit her. On Tuesday evening the girl went out again and when she returned her aunt asked had she heard of a situation yet. She said she had not and then her aunt said,“It would be no sin to give you a dose of poison to get you out of this world.”

She went to bed soon after and when she got up the next morning she found her mother and aunt had, had, their breakfast. The teapot was put in the oven for her. She drank a cup from it, and thought it tasted sweeter than usual, but made no remark. She then poured another cup and drank about half, when she felt a burning in her throat and stomach. She asked her mother had she put anything into the teapot. Her mother said.“No, let me taste”She put her lips to it saying some alum must have got into it by mistake.

The mother then went into the yard and the girl poured the contents of the teapot into a mug, and the tea remaining in the teapot into a jug, and took it to the witness William BLUNDELL, who went with her to the druggist Mr HAYWOOD, 2 Castle St, Kirkdale, who analysed the tea and found it contained oxalic acid, a deadly poison.

He gave her magnesium and sent her with a note stating the circumstances to Dr ARNOLD, Great Homer St, who gave her medicine.
On her return home she found her mother, aunt and two police officers in the house. Her aunt struck her as soon as she got into the house, and broke the bottle of medicine, saying,“I have not done enough to you, you out to be hung, hanging is to good for you.”

Det MURPHY on searching the house found some grains of oxalic acid in the fire-grate of one of the upstairs rooms. When the officers went to the house the aunt said, “This is just what I expected, if they give me 12 months I won’t care.”

The prisoners were remanded for seven days in order that Mr CLOUGH may make further inquiries.

The intended victim lived for some time in the service of Mrs YOUNGHUSBAND, [Now Mrs GARSIDE] of this town

May 7th 1852

Mysterious disclosure
The girl Elizabeth RIMMER who preferred a charge against her mother and aunt a fortnight ago at Liverpool for attempting to poison her, has since their committal, stated that in July 1849, while they resided in Ormskirk, her sister was delivered of an illegitimate child which her aunt and mother murdered, and then buried it in front of the house door, and that in October last her grandmother died suddenly and was hurriedly buried in Ormskirk churchyard

On Saturday last the spot indicated by the girl was excavated and at a depth of 3 ft the earth was found to be saturated with a dark, oleaginous moisture, but no bones were found. A surgeon who was consulted expressed the opinion that if a stillborn child had been buried there for 3 years there would be no trace of bones, It is intended to exhume the body of the old woman for the purpose of submitting the stomach to chemical analysis

August 27th 1852

THE POISONING CASE AT LIVERPOOL
CROWN COURT August 20th
Before Lord Chief Justice CAMPBELL

Ann and Sarah RIMMER were indicted of having on the 31st of March at Liverpool administered poison to Elizabeth RIMMER the daughter of the former and niece of the latter with intent to murder her. Mr BLAIR prosecuted. The prisoners at first were undefended but, after the case had proceeded for a short time, Mr ATKINSON at his Lordship’s request defended.

It appeared the girl Elizabeth RIMMER was an illegitimate daughter of the prisoner Ann RIMMER. At the time of the occurrence she had been out of a situation for more than a month and for that time had been living with the prisoners in Hartley Court, King St, Kirkdale.

Other than the information disclosed in transcription for April 9th 1852
The prisoners had frequently used foul language to the girl and on the Sunday previous to the 31st March a quarrel had arose about the tea not being ready, Sarah RIMMER threatened then to poison her. When she was unable to find a situation the mother said if she could not find a situation she must adopt a very disgraceful course of conduct to earn money which the girl refused to do.

When the girl had left the house to take the tea for analysis the mother had threw the contents of the basin the tea was prepared in down the channel.

His Lordship in summing up, referred to the act passed in the reign of our present Majesty, that whosoever administered poison with intent to murder was guilty of the offence of murder.

The Jury found both prisoners guilty.

Great sensation prevailed in the court when his Lordship putting on the black cap, proceeded to pass the sentence of death on the prisoners
“The sentence of this court is that you be taken hence, to the place you came from, and from thence to the place of execution and that you be hanged by the neck till you be dead, and may the Lord have mercy on your souls.” The prisoners, who seemed quite indifferent to the sentence were removed from the dock

September 10th 1852

Convicts Sarah and Ann RIMMER

Sentenced to death by Lord CAMPBELL at Liverpool for attempting to murder Elizabeth RIMMER, the poor girl who was frequently in a swoon giving evidence at the trial and had to be restored by medical men in an attempt to detail the horrible attempt made on her life by her mother and aunt because they could not succeed in driving her upon the streets as a prostitute. A few days since the sister of the matron at Kirkdale gaol conveyed the news to the prisoners that their lives would be spared

INFO Kindly suppied by BootleNY
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Poison At Liverpool

Postby vera » Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:47 am

:cry: :cry: Bootle N Y What a story, Thank you and you olso Mack
Cheers Vera
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teapot murders

Postby BootleNY » Thu Jun 12, 2008 5:27 pm

No problem glad to be of some help. I love it when I do something right.
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Postby daveowe » Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:49 pm

Hi Bootle NY

Sorry to disappoint these murders are not connected, the Teapot murders were a notorious Bootle event. The murders posted took place in Kirkdale.

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Lyons st

Postby vera » Fri Jun 13, 2008 6:42 am

William Francis December 1897
A destructive boy. William Francis aged 14 was charged with wilfully damaging a window in Lyons St to the amount of 7s 6d at the property of
Donald Mc Donald. The boy it appears broke several panes of glass in Lyons St some time ago. At the instance of Mr McDonald Francis was summoned but instead of appearing in court he went to the house and smashed some more panes of glass. A warrant was then issued and he was arrested he was commited to jail for one month.

December 8 1897

As William d o b was 1883 he would have only been 13 when the offence took place how times have changed, he was only 42 when he past away.
and would have spent christmas in the big house yes William was my grandfather, Cheers Vera.
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Postby tipster » Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:12 pm

On the 29th of July 2007 , the Liverpool Echo, mention a story, Saying the teapot muders were, due too 2 sailors killing several prostitutes, and as already mentioned earlier, it was called the teapot murder, due to , the association with Lyons Tea
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Re: The Teapot Murders

Postby john w » Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:14 pm

Martin wrote:Hi, Does anyone know anything about the Teapot Murders (Millers Bridge)
that was supposed to have happened in Bootle?
what really happened? Is it true?
Martin from Bootle

I realise this might be confusing matters more, but if I remember correctly (although I can’t now recall where I read this), the name Teapot Murders evolved as follows:
- a teapot hung as sign outside a grocer’s shop in Raleigh Street. This led to the street being nicknamed ‘Teapot Street’.
- when a couple of murders were committed in the street within a short period of time, because of the street’s nickname, they collectively became known as the ‘Teapot Murders’.

This means the murders took place in Raleigh Street, not Lyons Street.

I’m not convinced by the association between Lyons Street and the Lyons brand of tea, because most of the murders in the Lyons-Raleigh-Dundas Streets took place in the latter half of the 1800s, before Lyons Tea became available to the public. Before about 1902, Lyons tea was only distributed to Lyons Teashops, not for general sale.
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Postby john w » Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:18 pm

Martin wrote:Re: The Teapot Murders.
Found this post dated 6th of April 2005 on the Rootsweb.com site.
....

i have a book written by reg brookes .... he writes a little bit about Lyons St and the other 2 streets that were as notorious, Raleigh and Dundas St. Lawlessness was rife in the area. ... Lyons St.... where redoubtable females would settle quarrels among themselves with blows in public, sometimes adding to the drama by stripping off before they started.
... The men of this area generally made a nuisance of themselves insulting passers by and inflicting gang terrorism on the passers by.
...Sheila

In 1878 the Liverpool Mercury reported, following a murder in Raleigh Street and an assault in Dundas Street,

“It is scarcely possible to exaggerate the disorderly and riotous condition of some of the streets of Bootle almost every evening after sunset. The Irish labourers employed in the construction of the new docks at the north end of the town earn large wages, and having no evening employment and no other place of resort, they throng the public house, become half-maddened with drink, and then perpetuate the grossest acts of violence upon almost any persons they happen to meet.”

On another occasion in 1885, when the police went to arrest a man for a disturbance in Lyons Street, and finally caught him in Dundas Street, they were attacked by 300 locals in the street, the newspaper reporting

“the men, with the characteristic cowardice of the British rough, stayed at the back and contented themselves with throwing bricks and tins of salmon, whilst the women, with the hereditary vindictiveness of the three ‘furies’ did all in their power to maim the officers”.

The police eventually took refuge in Derby Road police station, by then being pursued by 400 locals.
(The three ‘furies’ are avenging goddesses in Greek and Roman mythology.)

Fortunately the residents of these streets did occasionally get in the courts for less serious offences – in 1894, a man in Lyons Street was twice charged with playing his organ too loud, disturbing local workers up to 400 m away during daytime and sometimes playing as late as 11 pm. For his second offence, he was fined 10 shillings and also ordered to pay the court costs.
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Postby richie » Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:46 pm

hi to you all im new to this site but went to school in merton road got onto your site quite by accident knew about the history of bootle and was interested in your questions from all over the world i have seen a t v programme called the lost world of Mitchell and Kenyon(Q) it is restored old film and contains an origional police reconstruction of a murder that took place in bootle around the turn of the century i think coffee house bridge is featured
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Postby PETER CRAIG » Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:15 pm

.
Last edited by PETER CRAIG on Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Life would be a perpetual flea hunt if we were obliged to run down all the innuendos and insinuations which are uttered against us :wink:
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Postby kevo » Tue Dec 08, 2009 2:40 am

LYONS Street in Bootle was once the scene of so many murders, it was renamed Beresford Street, and known locally in the early 20th century as the “street that died of shame”.
Sep 29 2007 by Dawn Collinson, Liverpool Echo

The notoriety linked with the street can be traced back to a singularly heinous crime – the brutal killing of several prostitutes by two sailors – known as the Teapot Murders, because Lyons was associated with the famous tea-brand during that period.

If such infamy was not enough to blacken a street-name, there came two other terrible widely-reported murders on Lyons Street: the vicious and cruel killing of Maggie Donoghue, who had her brains bashed out by fireman Jim McGuirk in 1903, and the mysterious, callous killing of six-year-old Tommy Foy in 1908.

But let me digress from the criminological history of that Bootle street, and allow me, via your imagination, to transport you back to Lyons Street in 1896, to a crumbling draughty old terraced house. The house was number 48, and its ground floor was a shop that sold everything, run by a Mrs Annie Burns.

In October 1896, a woman named Maureen Mack left Mackenzies Boarding House in Howe Street, Bootle after a lively argument with a lodger. She and her seven-year-old daughter Eileen found new lodgings over the shop of Annie Burns on Lyons Street, and settled in to their new home fairly quick.

Mrs Mack slept in one room, and little Eileen was given her very own room – in the loft. One night, close to Hallowe’en, a loud racket was heard in Eileen’s room, and when her mother went to see what the matter was, the girl made enigmatic remarks about “Skeetchy and Bumph” – two odd-looking shadows that had been visiting her over the past three nights. ‘Oh go to sleep!’ said a grumpy impatient Mrs Mack, and she closed the bedroom door and went back to bed.

When Maureen Mack settled back into bed, she thought about the strange things her daughter had told her. Eileen wasn’t a particularly bright or imaginative child, and her mother wondered if the girl had seen something supernatural.

On the following night, Eileen went to bed around 8pm, and minutes later, Maureen heard strange-sounding voices in her daughter’s room. She crept upstairs to the loft door, screwed up an eye, and peeped with the other one through the draughty keyhole. What Maureen saw caused her to tremble.

Two sinister shadows of two peculiar-looking beings were moving on the wall next to Eileen’s bed. One was horned like the devil, but was as bulky as an elephant, and the other was thin, with a tapering cone-shaped head, and they were fighting. Eileen, meanwhile was sitting up in bed, chuckling and clapping her hands at the antics of this Punch-and-Judy-style shadow play.

Mrs Mack made the sign of the cross and burst into the room to grab a startled Eileen. ‘Leave her alone you wretch!’ said the skinny shadow, waving a fist at Maureen.

Mrs Mack screamed and ran down five flights of stairs in her nightdress, dragging Eileen after her.

Mother and daughter never returned to that house, and Eileen missed her mysterious friends sorely, even though she didn’t know what they were or why they existed only as shadows

. We’ll probably never know who Skeetchy and Bumph were either!

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Postby Mack » Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:52 am

Mrs Mack made the sign of the cross and burst into the room to grab a startled Eileen


I didnt do it !!! Mrs Mack probably forgot to put the bin bags out again.
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Teapot. murder's

Postby vera » Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:39 pm

:lol: :lol: Mack.
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peter craig

Postby richie » Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:41 am

hi peter i went to st winies and left in 1965
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