Norwegian camp near Bootle

[Ray693]

[quote][/quote]

Hello
I wonder if anyone can help me with a question regarding the Bootle area around WWII or shortly after?
My son and I are former Royal marines and I collect/display RM badges in our home. A few years ago I picked up the item in the attached photo.

It is a Royal Marine Officer's cap badge, attached to a piece of flimsy pink paper. It was sent from 97, Knowsley Road from a father to his son. The father describes the badge as coming from the Commanding Officer of the Norwegians at a camp near Bootle or Liverpool.

Because the badge has a Kings crown it means it was issued/used prior to the coronation of Queen Elizabeth. I am curious as to why a Royal Marine would be commanding Norwegians - and who he was.

I have made various enquiries (Norwegian Consulate, RM Museum, Internet searches etc) but can only turn up references to Norwegian sailors in Liverpool after the German invasion of Norway.

Do any forum members have knowledge of Norwegians in a camp in the area and if so when/where was the camp, what Norwegians were there and were there Marines at the camp?

My grateful thanks for your time
Ray Faulkner

[BOBHAMO]

Hi Ray and welcome, aintree race course was used in ww2
but not sure if norwegian troops where there ,
fort crosby was also a camp
97 knowsley road was a shop, first a radio repair then a chemist
name Lightfoot

[Ray693]

Thanks Bob, I would guess military personnel(I.e. the RM officer) would possibly have visited the shop in either of its functions.
Will try to do some searching on those camps you've mentioned
Ray

[lynne99]

Perhaps there was living accommodation above the shop??

[Shelagh]

Hi Ray..not sure if this information is of any use to you.. but my parents moved into.. 200 Knowsley Road in 1945-1946 the accommodation was above a Taylor's shop known as Nat Brenner's or Brennan's!!
Remember very clearly, my mother telling me that the place was in a hell of a state when she first moved in..due to the fact..it had previously been occupied by soldiers!!
Always a mystery to me..why soldiers would be living in domestic accommodation.. during a time of war!!
The address..typed on pink paper..97 Knowsley Road..is a shop called Barons..a family owned, sweets and tobacconists..since ever I can remember.. still there today..but Mr Baron and his son Allan..no longer with us..I think the remainder of family still run the shop!!
They could easily find the name of previous owners..(from old deeds or similar)
Just seems strange, that the only mention of soldiers living around Knowsley Road at that time, has been from yourself and my dear mother
I do hope you find answers to the mystery of R.M. cap badge.. and the Norwegians..
Best wishes Ray!!
Shelagh!!

[Ray693]

Dear All
Many thanks for the contributions so far. The letter is tantalising in giving some information but leaving the door open to speculation and perhaps assumptions.
The address may not have been the sender's home, he could have been staying(or billeted) there as it was reasonably common for soldiers to live with civilians in war time if there wasn't accommodation available in camp/barracks.
The letter isn't dated and says the camp that was nearby at one time, perhaps suggesting the letter/badge was sent sometime after the camp/Norwegians were gone?
The only known facts are that the sender's son is named David and the badge dates from before 1953, oh and of course that the camp was near Liverpool.
During the cold war the Royal Marines had very close ties with Norwegian forces as we did Arctic training with them, but I am pretty sure that was much later than the coronation.
Personally I have only ever been to Liverpool once. That was back in the 70s when I spent 5 days at another Marines house, well to be true it was mostly a drunken haze and I don't think we actually spent much time at his house!
Two things I remember was how friendly everyone was - and a sportsmans bar that had an upside down racing car on the ceiling.
Ray

[Ray693]

As an afterthought, the fact that the man is posting the badge to his son might suggest it was sent during or immediately after the war. If it was his home then his son could have been an evacue or, if he was a soldier staying there then he would be posting it home to his son.
Ray

[Shelagh]

Hi again Ray..yes two very likely possibilities..letter could very well be meant for young (evacuee son) or father being a soldier placed in civilian accommodation sending letter home!!
Only question now....where was the Norwegian camp based
Hope you get answers soon Ray!!
Shelagh!

[booty45]

A number of ships were loaned to norwegian navy during ww2 including hms mansfield.crewed by norwegians she was involved insome commando raids agaist targets in occupied norway,her home port being liverpool.Mansfield was later transfered to RCN and made a subsantial number of convoy crossings,with a uk crew until scrapped.she was one of the us lend lease packages.

[bob. b]

Booty45 Great bit of history thank you for that information. Regards Bob. b

[WatsonTommy]

these norseman they got out of germany at the last moment before the german occupied them they had there own fishing boats and trawlers men of the sea /and got here to britain with there families the were then put too work around britain as mine sweepers at great loss off life .they came to l/pool to sweep the mersey the western approaches of mines and they were billeted close to the docks in peoples houses while there ships in the the gladstone dry dock got there wounds mended

[Ray693]

Last couple of posts very interesting, thanks for them. Have looked into the camps mentioned but neither seem to have involved Marines or Norwegians.
Ray

[booty45]

Could try hms eaglet history,rnr base and hq western approaches,also allocated crew/replacements as required on an ad hoc basis.Turnover might have been quite high nescessitating billeting of crew for short periods in civilian housing awaiting arrival or repair of their next ship.

[BOBHAMO]

Royal Naval establishments, during WW2 close to Bootle, there was a supply depot inside the Gladstone Dock, called HMS Defender which was used to supply Capt Johnny Walkers anti submarine flotilla with ship spares, ammunition and other dry stores. There was a RN Barracks on Sandy Road, Seaforth, which was used for naval personnel awaiting to join ships or being relieved from ships. This originally on the site the high rise flats were recently brought down. Have searched for info to no avail, but can recall this place as a child walking along Sandy Road!
The Vernons Pools building on Linacre Lane during wartime was also used as a RN shore training establishment, one of its training duties was for life boat training, there was a boat davit on the canal bank at the rear of the building, which they used to launch a lifeboat. (close to the steps from which the 'Bootle Belle' operated from)

Another RN Shore base HMS WELLESLEY, commissioned 8 May 1940, was located at the Royal Southern Hospital, Caryl Street, Liverpool 8, which had been evacuated in 1939 and turned over to the Admiralty for use as a training establishment. There is reference to it being used for DEMS (for those personnel manning defensively armed merchant ships) training.

HMS WELLESLEY was paid of 31 January 1946 and the building were eventually returned to their former use as a hospital.
Then of course the RN Hospital, Seaforth, previously this had been the home of the Seafield Convent
of my mate Dave
bobhamo

[Ray693]

Thanks Bob, I also did some searching but could not turn up any references to Marines or Norwegians at those establishments.
I did find that WRNS were in the bowels of HMS Eagles in the plotting room

Ray

[brenr]

HI Ray, during second world war Norwegian Destroyers and Corvettes were part of the Liverpool Escort Forces under the command of the c-in-c Western Approaches and took part in the Battle of The Atlantic. After the war the admiralty thanked the Norwegian navy on behalf of the Royal Navy & Royal Marines, maybe a RM officer was attached to one of the ships.

PS I'm ex bootneck served with RMR Merseyside

Regards

Robert

[Ray693]

Evening Robert
Escorts was the first thing I turned up but that doesn't match with the reference to a camp. Of course I am only assuming that it is a WWII reference but it could be pre or post war I guess.

I was in 73 to 81, finished as a PW at CTC and was booted out for high tone hearing loss.
My lad Rob was in 02 to 11, also finished at CTC training nods but he came out of his own accord to get married.
Ray

[booty45]

Topic seems to be segwaying into a booty pw re union!!!

[Ray693]

Yo Booty
May not have got anywhere with tracing the officer or camp but at least I've unearthed some fellow Bootneck
Ray

[booty45]

My time '64-73 so no pension...oh the pain.

[Ray693]

Finally heard back from Norwegian Consulate, they have not managed to find any information/references to this camp and so it looks like a mystery that will not be solved.
Ray