Tommy Sands

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bboardman
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Does anyone remember my cousin Tommy Sands who lived in O'niell street and was killed in a street fight next to the Litherland Town Hall about 1959--Billy
bjones
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Billy, might sound like a daft question but how sure are you of your cousin's name? There's a thread on "Talk About Bootle History" section about Bootle murders which mentions a Tommy Mckeown from the O'Neil St area who died as a result of an attack near the Litherland town hall.

http://www.bootlehistory.co.uk/forum/vi ... 5&start=35
Bee

"Life" is a gift to you. The way you live your life is your gift to those who come after.
Shelagh
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Bee, you are correct, Tommy Sands is the same person as Tommy Mckeown.
Apparently Sands was the maiden name of Tommy's mother, (according to Jimmy) and for some reason he was known by both names.
Billy, as Bee says, look to the section mentioned, and you will find there is a discussion about the tragic case!!
Shelagh K.
JOE21
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tommy had a cousin danny sands whos family lived in the prefabs in salisbury road of marsh lane
WatsonTommy
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r ember tommy use to go out with a girl name Mitchel he was found beaten up on the island outside the lither land town hall and died of antitetanus and his buried by the gate wall nut end at bootle cemetry we went to the dances at the lither land town hall st johns Blair hall orrell park etc
bboardman
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Hi Bee -Yes I knew Tommy was also called McKeown.My dads brother married Scarlot Sands and she kept her maiden name during their marriage and Tommy was their son.--cheers Billy
bboardman
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Hi Bee -My cousin Tommy was no angel.He was a pratt,plonker and a nasty bully. I was there at the Litherland Town Hall the night of the fight.In the dance hall he and his cretin mates were pushing and menacing a group of lads by the stage-this was not unusual behaviour for him and his gang,I told him to give it a rest and I thought he was going to have a go at me-but he didn't.On leaving the dance hall,just by the round-a-bout,I saw all of them acting and fighting like lunatics.I was with my girl-friend walking her home and we just kept walking.Two weeks later I heard he was dead.Two days later I went to his house in O'niel St and viewed him for the last time in his coffin in their parlour --Billy
bboardman
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Hi Bee -My cousin Tommy was no angel.He was a pratt,plonker and a nasty bully. I was there at the Litherland Town Hall the night of the fight.In the dance hall he and his cretin mates were pushing and menacing a group of lads by the stage-this was not unusual behaviour for him and his gang,I told him to give it a rest and I thought he was going to have a go at me-but he didn't.On leaving the dance hall,just by the round-a-bout,I saw all of them acting and fighting like lunatics.I was with my girl-friend walking her home and we just kept walking.Two weeks later I heard he was dead.Two days later I went to his house in O'niel St and viewed him for the last time in his coffin in their parlour --Billy
WatsonTommy
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I also went to see him in his coffin he had a white suit on and a red rose in his lapel he was a blond haired good looking lad billy Hellaway the boxer was a bouncer on the door
JOE21
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i went to ,see tommy in his coffin, as tommy watson did, he layed their in his white suit.as i remember the coffin was in the family home ,which was in the high rise flats in marsh lane,i dont remember going to oneil street. tommy was a good looking lad who got a lot of girls after him.like a lot of lads on the lane tommy could look after him self when needed,may be he was no angel in that respect.tommy was afew years older than me, as for being a bully i knew tommy for years i never saw him bully anyone i dont no where that came from.i was not their on the the night of the fight so i can only go on what i heard according to the court case.their where 4 lads attacking 1 lad,you said you saw what went on,why did you not try to stop it,or shout from a distance to try and distracted them instead of just walking on.if it was you getting attacked he would have been right there for you. you can call him all the names you want but can not call him a coward, shame on you.
Shelagh
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Hi Joe, just adding to what you say, husband also remembers going to see Tommy Sands laid out, his recollection is a little different to others, his memory of Tommy is being dressed in a Texan Grey suit, red tie and white shirt, also remembers going to a maisonette off Marsh Lane to see the body, thinks it was Compton Walk, definitely not O'neil Street...
Like yourself and others, he describes Tommy as being a good looking blonde haired lad who was well known around the area..
Good to know people still have memories of the young lad... (never should have died in such a way)
Shelagh K.
john james ingham
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myself and david stenson went in to see him and it was deffo the flats across from the solly.
born bank rd off strand rd.
john j connell
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Chestnut house John. JJC.
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fatboyjoe90
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Shelagh, what your husband has said is true, that’s where I went to pay my last respects to Tommy. They had recently moved from Salisbury Avenue Netherton, to the maisonette off Marsh lane their balcony was facing onto Irlam Road.
Cheers Joe.
john james ingham
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no john the flats on the other side by the solly I remember is mother sally inviting us in and we were still at school then.
born bank rd off strand rd.
Shelagh
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Thanks Joe, such a long time ago, memories fade, so wasn't sure if he was mistaken or not!!
Shelagh K!
john j connell
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Could have sworn Sally lived in Chestnut house, could she possibly have left Irlam Rd because the memories it would have kept for her. JJC. ps, we where the very last family to move on to the estate, so i was unaware of what had taken place.JJC.
bboardman
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Hi Joe-I don't know the Tommy you knew the one I knew was a self centred nasty piece of work. I wonder why his family had a bouncer at the door-says a lot to me--Billy
john james ingham
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yes john I think sally did move but I am not sure when.
born bank rd off strand rd.
henry
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It was Irlam road maissonettes and next door was were my brother frank lived
HENRY BORN FLORIDA STREET OFF STRAND ROAD
JOE21
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hi billy i knew tommy from conway street marsh lane,we all got moved out to dodge about 1957.the family did not take to netherton and moved back to the lane when the new estate was built on lane, so i knew tommy most of his short life.the only male cousin i knew tommy had was danny sands.billy you said in your post you told him to give it a rest and you thought he was going to have a go at you -but he didnt -that doese not sound like bully to me.billy you sure there is not any think else going on.like i said in my post bill why did you not try in some to way to help instead of walking on as you put it. joe21
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fatboyjoe90
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Joe, and Bill I think you should take this ill feeling conversation to the private messages, as we should never talk about someone who can’t defend themselves and show some respect.
Cheers Joe.
JOE21
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joe i was not talking ill of the dead i was defending tommy name he not here to defend himself i will not post on this topic again
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fatboyjoe90
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I’ve sent you a P M Joe.
Cheers Joe.
WatsonTommy
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the bouncer was the town hall doorman not at tommys home myself joey ackers pedlar tanner ray davis tommy mc cullough matty mcdowel all marshlaners had our tail homes and we saw a bit of a melee going on and it was two on two we ask tommy do you need a hand and he said were OK we carried on it was the next day we found that some other lads turned up with ammo boots on I wasn't there to see it as we left Tommy with a girl pat mitchum well this thread he is not forgotten r.i.p. Thomas we would buy bottles of bentock wine and esterleena from the white house retail shop and thought we were all dead hard but you can guarantee a fight in the lithy every thusdaynight hence the bouncer he was x profesional boxer and would wear half a boxing glove to knock us kids out yes we were 15 16 17 18 yrs of age the fights were like you see on them there westerns
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efc46
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reading all the talk about Tommy its funny Marsh lane was an area with a hard reputation we all had fights some you won and we did not talk about the lost fights the sad part was Tommy lost his life R.I.P.Tommy/Davey
Davey Rowlands Bootle
bboardman
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Joe-I've been thinking about your post and you're right, speaking ill of someone who can't respond is not right--and therefore I fully apologise for the comments i've made with regards to my cousin Tommy Sands--Billy
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fatboyjoe90
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Billy,
It Takes a Big Man to Admit When He’s made A Mistake. It Takes An Even Bigger Man To Apologize thank you.
Cheers Joe.
WatsonTommy
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he was another early pat and Henry m c Donald bully's yes bill you are right but as joe said you should never speak ill of the dead but you meant no animosity to Tommy
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efc46
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I remember Henry Mcdonald butting his girl friend outside the Georges what a hero
Davey Rowlands Bootle
Brunnyboy
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remember henry and pat well though they were older than me seemed ok fellas grew up down the lane don't remember any bullys
WatsonTommy
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well your not from marsh lane they picked on kids and elderly people drunks they knew who to pick on i was 17 and Henry McDonald butted me for no reason and barney Kennedy from southy st battered him paddy was a money lender would charge pensioners 100%or would take there pension books off them he sways stood out side the mayflower his sidekick was Ronnie rolinson he never worked he was that lazy he married a pregnant women for her family allowance
Brunnyboy
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I was a kid never picked on me if they would of done they would off got a smack same as any one down there I lived by the Alex and the new Alex drank I the jollys still live a hundred and 50 yards away from the lane why did you not hit him back
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Mack
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Hi gang,

Just popping in. I've moved this post over to our "Talk About the History of Bootle" for archiving so it does not get lost.

Mack
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